Andy Martin 3rd EP session
I assume the ‘Ian S’ is Ian Slaughter? If so then ‘hello Ian’. Any comment here purporting to come from me I actually have to send via e-mail to Andus first because I am unable to contribute to sites like these for technological reasons. There have been 2 or 3 people sent out greetings to me on this site but they’ve not left their e-mail addresses so I couldn’t respond to them even if I wanted to. I only see excerpts from this site when Andus sends them to me – usually when there’s some stupid argument about who played what instrument in The Creeping Nobodies in 1983 and which audience member stole their glue bag etc. It’s bizarre reading comments by people discussing The Apostles when I had forgotten about all that crap by 1990. This doesn’t apply to you, Ian, but it’s such a pain having to use Andus to post these comments I’ll say it here as I’m hardly going to be a regular contributor to this thing. So, for the record: punk died in the 1980s. The 1980s are gone and they’re not coming back. Punk is dead and it’s not coming back. Instead of droning on and on about what you did in the 1980s and who hit who at this or that gig, why not concentrate on what’s happening NOW and THINK AHEAD! Just a thought.
In case anyone else out there wants to release Apostles stuff on vinyl or CD – fine but please ask Dave Fanning first, purely out of politeness and common courtesy. For myself, I think ALL the tracks we’ve ever released should be available as free downloads. If I had my way, UNIT would no longer release CDs – they waste natural resources anyway – but the artwork and music tracks would be issued purely as digital downloads FOR FREE since that way our music is no longer a part of the capitalist commodity exchange. Never mind about that hoary old argument ‘oh but then you won’t make any money from sales of your music’ well we don’t make any bloody money from sales of our CDs anyway so who cares? If I want to make a profit, I work overtime or find another job – music, art and literature should all be free.
Also, thanks to the excerpts Andus sends me from this site, I have now counted no less than 4 occasions when poor Penguin The Peacemaker has had to jump in like a referee with ’steady on, chaps, keep it civil’ type messages. Penguin, referees are generally paid damned good wages – so you should start charging KYPP a decent fee.
If anyone wants to have a go at me (they usually do) then it’s no good posting angry retorts on this site (unless you want to see how long it takes for Penguin to leap in with ‘come on, folks, calm down, keep it friendly’), instead you can pester me at unitunited@yahoo.com.
KYPP: GOT THIS LATER ON via ANDUS IN REPLY TO MY FIRST COMMENT:
John No Last Name
December 28, 2008 at 12:24 amCol Ghadaffi’s son is loved by even right wing politicians in the US as is the Ayatolla Khomeini’s grandson. Ronald Reagan’s son however is a gay liberal hated by conservatives pointless arguement.
As for the guy laughing at you, maybe it was your shoes, but Nazi is still a slang abreviation for Nationalist which is in itself a shortened form National Socialist. Conservative can be shortened to the slang tory too, crazy huh?
If you understand Sozi then why not ‘Nazi’ they have the same unwritten z sound in the pronunciation.
Nic
December 28, 2008 at 2:10 amHellfire – this thread is beginning to look like one on that Crass messageboard…
If you can’t play nicely, Penguin will upload another of Chris’ Apostles rehearsal tapes…
Ian S
December 28, 2008 at 11:37 amiirc ‘Nazi’ already existed in Germany as a nickname, an informal version of a proper name, like Micky or Jimmy in English.
Can’t remember where I read that though, probably something dubious like the Reader’s Digest Book of Strange Stories and Amazing Facts or maybe one of those ‘fun facts’ you sometimes find printed on matchboxes or ciggy paper packets.
andus
December 28, 2008 at 1:45 pmI wouldn’t mind hearing How Much Longer and Equinox Screams as I don’t have them. No doubt Penguin will pop up saying they have already been uploaded and that I have no eyes. They gonna be re-released so I can wait.
So the ghost of Crass stalks this web site then Nic, I expect they go text in the night.
I wonder if any members of Crass have read this website.
The word Nazi has been well and truly sorted out anyway.
andus
December 28, 2008 at 2:25 pmA recent search for pages that contained the word “Nazi” revealed 3,920,000 web hits, and 1,710,000 group hits. A search for “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” revealed 5,410 web hits, and 4,910 group hits. The word “Nazi” was used 724 times more often on the web and 348 times more often in groups. “National Socialist German Workers’ Party was used 0.14% of the time that “Nazi” was used on the web. “National Socialist German Workers’ Party was used 0.3% of the time that “Nazi” was used in groups.
A search of the web sites that contain both the phrase “national socialist german workers’ party” and the word “Nazi” revealed only 4,260 hits. A search of news groups revealed 3,330 hits.
A recent search for posts that contained the word “Hitler” revealed 2,910,000 web hits, and 1,770,000 group hits.. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “Hitler” revealed only 4,270 web hits, and 3,390 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “Hitler” and “nazi” revealed only 3,670 web hits, and 2,550 group hits.
A recent search for pages that contained the word “fascist” revealed 705,000 web hits, and 582,000 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “fascist” revealed only 1,450 web hits, and 1,330 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “fascist” and “nazi” revealed only 1,310 web hits, and 1,190 group hits.
A recent search for pages that contained the word “fascism” revealed 639,000 web hits, and 292,000 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “fascism” revealed only 1,340 web hits, and 1,280 group hits. A search for pages that contained both the phrase “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” and “fascist” and “nazi” revealed only 1,210 web hits, and 1,140 group hits.
andus
December 28, 2008 at 2:26 pmVery interesting.
chris
December 28, 2008 at 4:50 pmAndus, you really should get out more.
andus
December 28, 2008 at 5:14 pmFor once Chris you’re right. right I’ll nip to the shops and get myself a dime bar or something.
Penguin • Post Author •
December 28, 2008 at 9:25 pmJust got back from my mum’s…what’s been happening in my absence? Hope you have all been behaving yourself!
Quote from Andus:
“I wouldn’t mind hearing How Much Longer and Equinox Screams as I don’t have them. No doubt Penguin will pop up saying they have already been uploaded and that I have no eyes.”
Try looking over at post 86 section you will then spot ‘How Much Longer’ over there…
http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/post86/?p=34
for shortcut.
‘Equinox Screams’ is a different matter. Have not got around to that one yet, it contains re-recorded bedroom recordings of material off that dodgy fourth EP namely, Rock Against Communism, Rights For Whites, Kill Or Cure, and Stop The Rot *** which generally upset my normal pleasant demenour, so I may fuck it off, I dunno…’The Acts of The Apostles’ LP will go up first at any rate and that will be on post 86 section so keep checking back…
*** It must be noted that in my experience Andy Martin is not actually racist or homophobic etc, but sticking the ‘Equinox Screams’ LP up, some younger browsers, or those unaccustomed to The Apostles may not hear, or know of some of the irony within the lyrics of those tracks. Out of context the LP sounds well dodgy!
Martin C
December 29, 2008 at 4:15 pmThe only positive thing I can say about ‘Equinox Screams’ is that I once had the idea of burning the 4 nazi tracks onto a CD-R and trying to sell it on eBay as an archive transferral of the only existing demo by White Boss. I’m not averse to making a buck off boneheads, and I reckon it would’ve been a good scam, especially when one of the mugs who’d ‘bought it now’ for £15 found out. I suppose ‘Stop the Rot’ is quite funny.
‘Smash the Spectacle’ was my personal fave just for the raw ‘Mob Violence’ and the Ennio Morricone-goes-squatpunk vibe of ‘New World..’ and ‘Libertarian Youth’
andus
December 29, 2008 at 4:21 pmWell. I went out last night, and this morning, and its damn freezing, and I’ve got frost bite, you cunt Chris.
Go on put Equinox Screams up, rights for whites, too right, I wouldn’t mind being repatriated along with the Asians if the BNP get in, of course us whites won’t get that option.
gerard
December 30, 2008 at 1:12 amthread approaching bellendious…
James
December 30, 2008 at 8:58 amand you can stream or download it here:
http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/180906
john
December 30, 2008 at 12:22 pm‘Equinox Screams’ was one of the first times i heard the apostles…….wtf was it all about?
back2front
December 30, 2008 at 6:12 pmI wrote to Andy after I heard that album and asked about those particular tracks and he basically said he was baiting fascists. Later he would add that he also wanted to confront the conservative anarcho-punk tea party. Andy is most certainly not a racist.
Martin C that made me laugh and you’ve given me an idea…
Jim V
December 31, 2008 at 12:35 amI know you don’t do requests..but..Aus_Rotten’s Fuck Nazi Sympathy might be appropriate..?
seitan
January 1, 2009 at 3:33 pmThe Apostles were a very big influence on me, far greater i think, than Crass.
As for somebodys comment about Andy Martin being racist and homophobic, I just assumed that was a joke!
baronvonzubb
January 1, 2009 at 6:35 pmWe’re all racist and homophobic here.
My name means ‘prick’ in Arabic. S’pose thats why I got cold shouldered on the Fundamental site…
But “Yes, sir, we are Fascists and this is a Police State. Now would you please mind stepping onto the pavement so the No.76 bus can get past”
Classic!
Reminds me of some old footage I saw of the convoy.
Loads of vehicles in a line. Some cops blocking off access. Usual thing
A girl all convoyed up, completely freakin out at these cops. Being seriously insulting. I was waiting for the long arm of the law to appear on camera. But all the cops did was try to engage her in conversation by talking about the vehicles
“well you might see some glorious freedom transporters but some see a load of knackered buses with no MOT.Its just a question of perceptoion”etc.
And all she could do was attack them. It was very sad.
The pigs were acting like human beings and our tribe babe couldnt see it.
Guess we’ve all done it.
But try saying this to a Greek…
Sam
January 1, 2009 at 7:06 pmA ‘kebab Greek’ at that…
andus
January 1, 2009 at 7:07 pmWas that just before the riot police moved in, and kicked the fuck out of them, killing one of them? But no MOT shouting at the police, I guess that justifies illegal corporal punishment with no right to a trial first, not to mention the death penalty.
chris
January 2, 2009 at 1:24 amOne of the convoy was KILLED by the police at Stonehenge?!! News to me.
Like not having insurance, a motor vehicle without an MOT should not be on the road.
andus
January 2, 2009 at 1:44 amIts been common knowledge for the last 23 years mate that a chap was killed during the battle of the beanfield. you really don’t know a lot do you Chris.
I totally agree people without MOT should not be on the road. But how do you know they did not have MOT, I don’t seem to remember anyone beoing prosecuted for it, least the news did not report any prosecutions, you think they would have reported that seeing as it would have been good and true propaganda for them.
chris
January 2, 2009 at 3:05 amWith respect, if I “don’t know a lot” nor does anyone else. The police’s ambush and attack was an indefensible, disgusting and deplorable act but I have never heard of anyone being killed at the battle of the beanfield, and in fact having entered variations on killed/murdered/died/stonehenge/peace convoy/battle of the beanfield/operation daybreak into Google I cannot find ONE SINGLE mention of it. Additionally, one would have thought the police killing someone would have warranted a mention in the book on The Battle of The Beanfield by Andy Worthington, which, coincidentally, I read only a month or so ago. Perhaps you have a link or source?
Totally agree with you re the vehicles having MOTs or not. My original comment was meant in general, not in relation to the peace convoy.
andus
January 2, 2009 at 3:19 amTo be fair I have just done the same thing as you, ie done every different google search and I cannot find anything about anyone being killed at the beanfield. However I have heard for years and years off lots of different people that someone was killed there. It is mentioned in the documentary Spirit of Albion, I have read Mr Worthington’s book as well, Could it be that there is an injuction on anyone reporting it, There was I have been told a D notice that prevented it being reported at the time it happened. But I have heard about this killing from most travellers I met during the numerous free festivals I went to from 85-89. Perhaps its just a rumour, but one hell of one if it is.
As for the MOTs. I lived on the road for about 4 months in 1988, the travelers I was with made absolutely certain they had MOT and insurance, it was a major issue since the police were looking for any tiny excuse they could get to bust them.
chris
January 2, 2009 at 4:23 amYes, it is without doubt just a rumour. ‘D notices’ don’t really exist and it beggars belief that, had anyone been killed, it could or would have been hushed up.
But sure you’re right about MOTs and travellers. I don’t see how the convoy would ever have even existed had they not had their papers as the old bill would just have impounded their vehicles.
Phil R
January 2, 2009 at 10:05 amTravellers having MOTs..squatters paying gas and leccy? Dont think there were any particular rules. People just got by the best they could.
andus
January 2, 2009 at 11:07 amI think you’re wrong about d notices not existing cause that was on the bbc a couple of weeks ago. You are the first person to refute this death at the beanfield, every single person I have spoken to about the subject over the last 20 years has mentioned this death.
andus
January 2, 2009 at 11:14 amHeres the wikipedia on D notices.
In Britain, a DA-Notice (called a D-Notice until 1993) is an official request to news editors not to publish or broadcast items on specified subjects, for reasons of national security.
D-Notices and DA-notices are merely a request and therefore not legally enforceable and consequently news editors can choose to ignore them without (in theory) official repercussions, although they are generally accepted by the media.
The original D-Notice system was introduced in 1912, run as a voluntary system by a joint committee headed by an Assistant Secretary of the War Office and a representative of the Press Association.
In 1971 all existing D-Notices were cancelled and replaced by standing D-Notices that gave general guidance on what could be published and what could not, and what would require further advice from the secretary of the Defence, Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee (DPBAC). In 1993 the notices were renamed DA-Notices.
andus
January 2, 2009 at 11:15 amFrom The Times
October 24, 2008
D-notice slapped on MoD’s history of censorship, Secrecy and the Media, after spat over ‘turgid’ writing
The present Iraq war is not in the D-notice history, which stops at 1997
(Chris Helgren)
The present Iraq war is not in the D-notice history, which stops at 1997
David Sharrock
There is a long tradition of the military suppressing news that it considers detrimental to national security by slapping a D-notice on it.
But when the D-notice committee decided that the time was ripe to publish its own official history, nobody imagined that it would fall victim to its own system. The history of the D-notice committee has, in effect, had a D-notice slapped on it by the D-notice committee.
Even in the long history of sloppy Fleet Street copy, no scoop has ever been suppressed by the Defence Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee, as it is properly known, for reasons of grammatical incompetence, style or erudition.
Yet this is apparently one of the reasons why the history has been censored in a spat between the committee’s current and former secretaries.
Secrecy and the Media, written by Rear-Admiral Nick Wilkinson, who was secretary of the committee from 1999 to 2004, should have been hitting all good bookshops this month, according to the academic publisher Routledge’s website.
But an extraordinary wrangle over the 300,000-word manuscript in the corridors of Whitehall threatened at one point to junk the book entirely. A compromise was reached only after the intervention of Christopher Andrew, a Cambridge historian and an expert on the intelligence services.
The book will now be published in May, but without its final five chapters. These cover the Blair years, charting the winding-down of the Irish terrorist campaigns and the War on Terror.
The Times has learnt that the manuscript was cleared for publication by all the relevant government departments – MI5, SIS, GCHQ and the Foreign, Home and Cabinet offices, as well as the Treasury Solicitor and the Attorney-General. However, when it arrived at the Ministry of Defence it was passed not to the department’s security and legal experts but to the current D-notice secretary, Air Vice-Marshal Andrew Vallance.
He advised that the book be with drawn altogether for “reasons of style and structure”, and that a new official history should be commissioned, to be written instead by a “trained historian”, a source has told The Times. The air vice-marshal’s view was endorsed by the MoD.
Possibly sensing a looming public relations disaster, the Cabinet Office sought the opinion of Mr Andrew, who is writing the official history of MI5. His view was that there was absolutely no reason for its publication to be prevented on any grounds of style, structure or content.
Faced with his endorsement, the Ministry of Defence then objected to the book’s coverage of recent events, up to and including 2004, arguing that it should halt at 1991.
Finally a compromise was reached by the Cabinet Office under which the text should end at 1997 – in accordance with a convention that official histories do not normally include matters concerning the administration in power at the time of publication.
As a consequence, the five final chapters have been held back – even though they had previously been given clearance by all the Government’s departments.
They will eventually be published in a later edition of the book after a change of administration. A number of television documentary makers have already expressed interest in turning the book into a series.
Air Vice-Marshal Vallance told The Times yesterday: “It was awfully written. I’ve read it twice and it was an agony to read. It’s turgid. One of the sentences in it was 130 words long. It’s just poor history.”
He later clarified his remark, saying: “It’s poorly presented history. It’s very thorough, but it’s just difficult to read.”
The manuscript was “a first draft” and the dispute was “a spat and a difference of opinion between myself and Nick Wilkinson”.
Rear-Admiral Wilkinson declined to comment, saying: “It would be ungentlemanly for me to say anything about an elderly official in the twilight of his brilliant career.”
A century of secrecy
— The reason why a Dnotice is so named is a mystery. In the run-up to the First World War notices were labelled alphabetically but the expression “getting a Dnotice” originated when the War Office and the Admiralty began issuing censorship orders to newspapers under a system set up in 1912. The term stuck even after the media began self-regulating
— Secrecy and the Media is described by its publishers as “essential reading for those in the media and government departments dealing with security and intelligence” and as “an accessible exposé for the public, in whose interests both sides are operating”
— The Dnotice committee is chaired by the Permanent UnderSecretary of State for Defence, with four senior civil servants and 13 members nominated by the media
— Five nonlegal standing Defence Advisory Notices provide “guidance on those areas of national security that the Government considers it has a duty to protect”. They have no legal standing
— The full notices, covering operations, weapons, communications, installations and intelligence, are at http://www.dnotice.org.uk
chris
January 2, 2009 at 4:09 pmQUOTE: You are the first person to refute this death at the beanfield, every single person I have spoken to about the subject over the last 20 years has mentioned this death.
You are making that up.
Yes, andus, i think I know how D/DA Notices work. I worked for the Press Association for six years. OBVIOUSLY information regarding ‘national security’ isn’t going to be published in the newspapers. You were talking about a ‘D-Notice’ being applied to this ficticious murder at Stonehenge, which is patently nonsense.
Funnily enough, an official request WAS recently made to the press requesting the photo that was front page of about every tabloid around the rest of Europe of Prince William with his cock out taking a piss (Google should you so desire) was not reproduced in any British tabloids, and I was very surprised that News International acquiesced to this.
NB: I’m sure simple URL links to any sources would suffice as these cut & paste odysseys do take up a bit of space.
andus
January 2, 2009 at 5:33 pmNo I am not.
Why would they not put a D notice up about a chap being killed by the police, why is that not national security, could it not have led to attacks on the police if it had been reported.
chris
January 2, 2009 at 5:47 pmno offence mate, but that really does not even warrant a response. You do come out with some singularly outlandish ideas sometimes.
andus
January 2, 2009 at 6:04 pmWhats so outlandish about it. The killing of a 15 year old boy was a catalyst for riots across Greece recently. At the time of the Beanfield the authorities suspected some travellers of having guns.