Protest And Survive / No Scapegoat
Debut release on Inferno Records run by Tempest record shop in Birmingham, next release was by Dead Wretched which is also a slab of tip top pogo punk.
This band I know hardly anything about except they reminded me of Discharge at the time of purchasing this 7″ single (except for Soldier Boy, that sounded like Dead Wretched), and the vocalist had a mohican when I caught them performing live.
All the rest of the memories are now faded into some kind of UK82 haze in my brain somewhere.
Lazy journalism at its most frustrating. Sorry about that…off to bed!
andus
October 16, 2008 at 3:26 pmMy capital one card has arrived, yippee, time to borrow some more money, fags at last.
chris
October 16, 2008 at 3:49 pmAndus, sorry to burst your bubble about Peter Powell and Visor Consultants (a fabrication which, surprise, surprise, first emerged on Alex Jones site) but even the coonspiraloons have realised the own goal and error of manipulating the truth of that one:
http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/07/alex-jones-is-wrong-on-london-terror.html
You can also see the FULL BBC interview via this link.
NB: Visor had nothing to do with the Twin Towers. You’re getting your conspiracies a bit mixed up. It was Securacom who Marvin Bush was a shareholder in. As he will be in thousands of other companies. Unless his investment bank do not know how to do their job. Which, like your conspiracy theory, is highly unlikely.
chris
October 16, 2008 at 3:55 pmRemote controlled jumbo jets?!!! For fucks sake man!! Get a grip!! oh, right, I suppose the pilots who were killed were just holograms and their families are replicants? I’m not even going to bother responding to that unmitigated idiocy.
chris
October 16, 2008 at 4:02 pmQUOTE: This was a geezer standing in the gapping whole that was left by the plane, with fires raging around him, I looked at the same footage on the web, the geezer didn’t look burn’t to me, which you would think he would have been.
Sorry, im a bit lost….even accepting the monolithic unlikelihood of this being the case what exactly would it mean? that somewhere in New York there is a man made of asbestos?
Nic
October 16, 2008 at 4:02 pmHey Chris – don’t get your knickers in a twist about remote controlled jumbo jets…a minute ago, you said they were fun!
😉
I’m going to ensure that I maintain my solid record so far and continue to reply with unmitigated idiocy!
🙂
Nic
October 16, 2008 at 4:04 pmA man made of Asbestos? God’s Blood!!!
Imagine how unlucky you’d be if you got locked in our Asbestos-y shed with him for the night…Lungs itching like a motherlicker…
Ian S
October 16, 2008 at 4:25 pmEr don’t think this is right Andus:
“Most of the anti semetic literature that went into Germany in the early 1930s was imported from America, Ostera the anti-semetic magazine that Hitler got his ideas from was an American Import, as was the film The eternal jew”
Ostara, subtitled ‘The Library of the Blonds’, was produced in Germany by the former monk Lanz von Liebenfels. ‘The Eternal Jew/Der Ewige Jude’ was a Nazi propaganda film made in Germany in 1940.
You’re right though about Bakunin holding anti-semitic views and anti-semitism being very widespread.
andus
October 16, 2008 at 4:48 pmAndus, sorry to burst your bubble about Peter Powell and Visor Consultants (a fabrication which, surprise, surprise, first emerged on Alex Jones site) but even the coonspiraloons have realised the own goal and error of manipulating the truth of that one:
I have just listened to this on the link you sent, and got my dvd out and played it, and they are exactly the same Peter powell does not chuckle on this tape or my dvd of it, yet on CT film 7/7 ripple he laughs and chuckles, Now I only watched that interview once so I could not remember all of it exact, Alex jones also shows the interview with him chuckling.
So it would seem you have exposed A J and the others as fraudsters, with my help of course, if I had not recorded the news that night we would not have reached this point. As the link you gave me I would no have taken as proof, But I cannot dismiss my own, more to the point my mates dvd recording direct from the bbc.
What can I say, you win, I concede defeat.
I must admit I have had doubts about these people.
Sam
October 16, 2008 at 5:20 pmA good friend of mine was living in Brooklyn at the time of the attacks. He stood on his roof and had a direct view of the whole thing. He said what you couldn’t see in the films was that each building was a tower of flame from top to bottom at the time of collapse.
My few years of contact with anarchism really taught me a completely paranoid world view. Like most of us (I guess) I didn’t read too much Bakunin or Malatesta or even Guy Dubord as it was too dense and too boring. Instead I learned a bunch of impressive sounding slogans and got into the habit of seeing conspiracy and underlying (negative) meaning in just about everything. It’s often much harder to see the superficial and obvious than it is to dig out ‘real’ subliminal meaning. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Maybe Kennedy was shot by a lone nutter.
andus
October 16, 2008 at 5:26 pmAndus, sorry to burst your bubble about Peter Powell and Visor Consultants (a fabrication which, surprise, surprise, first emerged on Alex Jones site) but even the coonspiraloons have realised the own goal and error of manipulating the truth of that one:
I have just listened to this on the link you sent, and got my dvd out and played it, and they are exactly the same Peter powell does not chuckle on this tape or my dvd of it, yet on CT film 7/7 ripple he laughs and chuckles,neither does he mention Visor cs. Now I only watched that interview once so I could not remember all of it exact,I just took it for grantage that they were airing it exact. Alex jones also shows the interview with him chuckling.
So it would seem you have exposed A J and the others as fraudsters, with my help of course, if I had not recorded the news that night we would not have reached this point. As the link you gave me I would not have taken as proof, But I cannot dismiss my own, more to the point my mates dvd recording direct from the bbc.
What can I say, you win, I concede defeat.
I must admit I have had doubts about these people.
Its still quite a co-incidence they were running a drill
double post remove this
andus
October 16, 2008 at 5:32 pmRemote controlled jumbo jets?!!! For fucks sake man!! Get a grip!! oh, right, I suppose the pilots who were killed were just holograms and their families are replicants? I’m not even going to bother responding to that unmitigated idiocy.
The [pilots were incinerated by the burning fuel, no remains of their bodies.
Anyway you’ve won,
but yes is possible to fly jumbo jets by remote, just as its possible to fly small planes by remote, an increase in size doesn’t make it impossible
chris
October 16, 2008 at 5:34 pmAnd may I thank you, Andus, for being so admirably open minded about this all. I can only offer you my sincerest respect and wish more people were as open to debate and dialogue as your good self.
Unfortunately, what sadly seems to be the case is that many people who get into all this conspiracy theory stuff are even more dogmatic and blinkered than fundamentalist christians.
And to give you an idea of just HOW vile and repugnant these charlatans can be here’s a cut and paste from a posting by a woman disabled in the 7/7 bombings who has had to take out court orders against 7/7 and 9/11 ‘Truthers’ after exposing one of their leading lights in the UK as being a regular on the Nazi Stormfront site!
(you may have seen this reported in the press)
_____________________________________________________________
Conspiraloon 9/11- 7/7 Truther outed as Holocaust denier
Remember the sad tale of the fruitbat conspiraloon who turned up to a book launch of a 7/7 book authored by peace activist Milan Rai, heckled the speakers, supported by his pals, and demanded a platform to take to the floor and deliver a rant about ”synthetic terror”’ and the bombers being ”innocent” – in front of people who had their legs blown off by said bombers? And in front of the train driver who had stood amongst the carnage and tried to make tourniquets with his uniform to stop people bleeding to death?
His name, it turns out is Nick/Nicholas Kollerstrom, PHD, and he is a campaigning mainstay of the ”9/11 and 7/7 Inside Job” Brigade, growing ever more determined and vociferous as the years go by
Now regarding his bonkers views on 7/7 and 9/11 – there is little point bothering to challenge him or people like him, as I have discovered over the last 2 years of getting demented aggro from the ‘truth movement’.
But his continuing attempts to contact and pester survivors and families is something that I do have a problem with ( he turned up to the 7/7 conspiracy trial at Kingston yesterday and badgered a man from Aldgate who couldn’t get away from him, all the time while he was trying to eat his lunch in the canteen.
So imagine my surprise when he turns out to not just be a fruitbat, but a hardcore holocaust deniar and Stormfront regular:
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/2014#comment-11801
It’s interesting what you find when you scratch under the surface of what seem to be superficially wacky beliefs, isn’t it?
You can familiarise yourself with Nick Kollerstrom’s views on this broken link
http:// codoh.com/newrevoices/nrillusion.html
and
http:// codoh.com/newrevoices/nrnktrip.html
and here
http:// www. davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15930
He’s cited as a source in this indescribably vile website
http:// www. nazigassings.com/
oh, and even the Lady Diana conspiracy gets a look-in here: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/diana2.html
And here he is on his fave website, posting as ”astro3”, busily sharing his theories about 7/7 and 9/11 being ”synthetic terrorism”, ”false flag operations” and the 7/7 bombers being innocent.
http:// www. nineeleven.co.uk/board/search.php?search_author=astro3
http://www. nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewforum.php?f=9
He’s not the only holocaust-denying conspiraloon on that board – so next time you see them marching with their ”9/11 =Inside Job” or ”7/7= inside job” banners, you might want to ask if they care about the company they keep when they campaign for what they call ”Truth”.
http://www. nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=13462&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=holocaust
_____________________________________________________________
andus
October 16, 2008 at 5:35 pmSo we are not all going to die. cheers Chris I don’t have to waste any more time on the 9-11 crap.
chris
October 16, 2008 at 5:38 pmYou Know It Makes Sense 🙂
andus
October 16, 2008 at 5:44 pmAnd may I thank you, Andus, for being so admirably open minded about this all. I can only offer you my sincerest respect and wish more people were as open to debate and dialogue as your good self.
Thanks. I am so glad I got my mate to record the bbc footage that night, What a brilliant move that was, now I’m gonna have to tell people its all bull. they’re fraudsters. Very clever though.
Unfortunately, what sadly seems to be the case is that many people who get into all this conspiracy theory stuff are even more dogmatic and blinkered than fundamentalist christians.
This is very true of a friend of mine who gets very nasty if you even question it. I have never been that type of person, least the majority of time I haven’t.
Penguin • Post Author •
October 16, 2008 at 6:13 pmThe Varukers were great weren’t they? Already got over 1/6th of the comments that ‘the big thread’ has got in a matter of days.
Baron you gotta work on the H band threads to keep them top of the pile.
alistairliv
October 16, 2008 at 6:18 pmI posted a conspiracy theory on KYPP, it is still here somewhere. It was about how there was a secret stash of steam trains kept in a tunnel/cave near Bath to be used after a nuclear war. According to the story the steam trains were kept from 1968 (when last steam trains were withdrawn by British Railways) until 1981 when they were finally -and secretly- scrapped. The story even had an interview with one of the fitters who maintained the engines. And a story of a young trainspotter in Wales who had actually seen an unmarked steam train out for a test run in 1979…
I did think it sounded too good to be true. On further research it turned out it was. Although if I was a real conspiracy buff I would ask why there are so many still working preserved steam engines all over the country… why hide your strategic steam train (nuclear war/ oil runs out) reserve in a cave when you can keep them out in the open and pretend it is all done by ‘railway enthusiasts’ not the state?
Chris
October 16, 2008 at 6:53 pmThe most insidious aspect of it is that since the leading 9/11 conspiracy peddlers are right-wing conservatives, as well as making themselves very rich, they effectively deflect a lot of analysis of what the US government is REALLY up to by portraying themselves as some sort of ‘true patriotic’ crusade in the same way as many of their bed-fellows in the pro-gun lobby do. How the pentagon must gloat to see all the energy put into the ‘9/11 Truth Movement’ in comparison to that invested into the Anti-Iraq War movement. If there is any real ‘conspiracy’ going on it’s surely that.
🙂
baron von zubb
October 16, 2008 at 6:54 pmAll these comments were started by stuff about ‘that geezer Sam’ .
This IS the new H band big thread.
Its just not fair. I’m gonna complain to Mr Gates
So, I tried listening to the Varukers. I dunno just sounds exactly the same as all the other bands from that era. Fast n shouty.
What can I say?
At least I DID listen.
Then working class only existed as industrialisation gathered pace. Before that it was peasents & those in service.
Marx was describing a current, to him, phenomina
Now the working class, in the UK at least, owns a house with central heating and two cars, has 4 weeks holidays a year, unrecognisable to Marx.
Anti semetic lefties.
Yeah there has been a tradition on the left of anti semitism, particularly in Russia, Bakunin included.
Kroptikn wasnt, Malatesta wasnt, Marx wasnt.
Debord was a bit, Vaneigam wasn’t.
My question.
If all these ex punks are now doing this, wheres all the ex punkettes?
Penguin • Post Author •
October 16, 2008 at 7:12 pmMost of the ex punkettes are in a secret chamber next to Chris’s flat for him to go all Brian Ferry on them.
andus
October 16, 2008 at 8:14 pmYou could well be right there Chris, get them all to chase after the 9-11 inside job make them look ridiculous, and get on with your imperialism unhindered, and getting them to go after 9-11 would make it more legitimate for the Goverment to arrest them as enemy combatants. Alex Jones has been going on about terrorist attacks for years prior to 9-11 he was going on about the Oklahoma bombing by McVey being an inside job. I don’t get the neo-con bit since he has been straining at the leash to get these neo-cons in the whitehouse for years, he could well be a stoop, he’s been caught out by us now for forging films, what else has he forged?
Anyway I find it hilarious that my own research and gathering of evidence ends up debunking the theory I espoused to, the one I was trying to prove. brilliant, absolutely brilliant, I’m over the moon.
Nic you can come back the conspiracy is over, Chris has won.
Graham Burnett
October 16, 2008 at 8:59 pmI was made to watch that bloody awful film ‘Zietgiest’ a while back on the premise that it would ‘open my eyes to the truth’…
Okey dokey, here’s my synopsis interspersed with my critical comments as given at the time;
PART 1: Christianity is all a big con.
Me; So?
PART 2: 911 was a conspiracy
Me: And? Your point?
PART 3: The American banking system is corrupt
Me: Oh do fucking surprise me, please!
Why I should actually give a fuck about any of these irrelevancies is completely lost on me I’m afraid, as Nic says, the words ‘smokescreen’ and ‘spectacle’ immediately spring to mind.
The worse thing about this film though is that it spends 2 hours or whatever ‘arguing’ (or more accurately, bludgeoning) the point that the world has been controlled for the last 10,000 years by an elite cabal of manipulators and power-mongers (I don’t think lizards were mentioned in this particular ‘epic’) of which the NeoCons are just the current manifestation, who will stop at literally nothing as they continue to grasp onto their power and wealth, before tacking on a 2 minute “But you can make a difference! Just say no!” (or words to that effect) message on the end as if that will somehow counter the general message of disempowerment and hopelessness rammed home none too subtley beforehand.
Chris
October 16, 2008 at 9:06 pmYes, you’re right, he’s not so much a neo-con as a more orthodox right-winger. Politically, not too dissimilar to the First Amendment waving survivalist types, as evidenced by their claims about the Oklahoma bombing, although as that comes a bit close to an overt attempt to rehabilitate such neo-nazi elements they tend to concentrate on the more politically palatable 9/11. I find the politics of these conspiracy types pretty bewildering to be honest. In fact i think the best description of them is simply right-populists, like Kelvin MacKensie or Nick Ferrari. And like them, I think Jones was also a talk show host where is where he’ll have honed his hectoring style, if not his ethics.
That said the worst of that bunch is that 19 year old piss-insect who, i think, may be the guy who produced ‘Loose Change’. there’s a clip of him on youtube doing a PR stunt at some 9/11 anniversary event shouting at firemen and people who lost family “you’ve been conned” whilst giving out leaflets advertising his latest DVD release. Nauseating stuff.
I’ve got a great documentary which pulls his ‘evidence’ apart by interviewing the very people whose mouths he attributed his ‘proof’ to, all of whom say completely different things to what he claimed! I dare say a similar ‘reappraisal’ of Mr Jones and his ‘economies with the truth’ shall emerge in due time.
I must say, Andus, it really is a breath of fresh air to encounter someone as open minded and open to reason as your good self. I’ve been wrong about a million things but the important thing is – as the old adage says – to QUESTION EVERYTHING. And none more so than than that preached by anyone know claims that they are the only one who knows The Truth.
Chris
October 16, 2008 at 9:11 pm“But you can make a difference! Just say no!”
Just like TV evangelism, isn’t it? Only at least they’re open enough to follow “But you can make a difference!” by giving you a bank account number to make a donation to!
BTW, you going to the @ Bookfair on saturday, Graham?
Graham Burnett
October 16, 2008 at 9:17 pmDid they, can’t remember as it was about a year ago that I watched it, so details are hazy, especially as I was actually more interested in a bottle of brandy I’d found in the kitchen whilst others were being enlightened… Actually thats pretty unfair as most of the others present gave the movie about as short shrift as I did…
Unfortunately I’m running a permaculture course in Stoke Newington on saturday, but plan to be at the bookfair later in the day to do a bit of ‘wheeling and dealing’ with my newly published permaculture book, so hopefully we can hook up for a ‘half’ at some point, no doubt wth the likes of Malcolm Housmans…
andus
October 16, 2008 at 9:29 pmThe most powerfull weapon in the hands of the oppressor,
is the mind of the oppressed.
If tyrants and despots can convince the people that they are powerless, and they believe it, they have already won 90% of the battle.
andus
October 16, 2008 at 11:42 pmThe chap who made Loose Change is called Dylan Avery, A french student living in the US apparently. In the first edition of LC he zoomed in on the aircraft to show missiles strapped underneath, then came Loose Change 2, with the missile theory missing, I didn’t bother watching the final edition. A million copies of that film have been downloaded off the web apparently. I didn’t like the bloke right from the off.
There are other films,,, In plane sight by Dave Vonkleist. 9-11 the news special you never saw by Barry Zweiker. I know nothing about these two chaps apart from the fact that they are not in the Jones clan. There is also another film. The greatest lie ever sold by Anthony J Hilder, illuminati specialist, espousing the theory of the inside job plus the US Goverment are planning to exterminate 80% of Americans whilst similtaneuosly conquering the middle east and beyond, I suppose the remaining 20% will be conscripted to fight this war whilst yankee land remains empty for Bush to ride his horses on. This chap is a real idiot, but comes up with some brilliant narration.
Alex Jones does support the right to bear arms and frequently implores the US public not to give up their guns.
Ian S
October 17, 2008 at 3:57 pmalistairliv wrote:
“I posted a conspiracy theory on KYPP, it is still here somewhere. It was about how there was a secret stash of steam trains kept in a tunnel/cave near Bath to be used after a nuclear war.”
That’s a pretty good conspiracy theory. After all, Green Goddess fire engines were kept for long after they were obsolete. Steam engines could use scavenged or domestically mined coal or perhaps even firewood to keep running.
There is a tube tunnel that goes under the Thames between Whitehall and Waterloo, passing underneath the Northern Line tunnels at one point . . . but you won’t see it on any tube map.
Sam
October 17, 2008 at 4:53 pmI heard the same conspiracy theory as alistair’s in the early seventies, except this was regarding the US military stockpiling WWII planes for use after a nuclear war with the USSR.
The one dearest to our hearts was that ‘They’ could easily produce robots to do 90% of the work done by human beings. That would increase leisure time to at least 16 hours a day, leaving us free to sit in the kitchen, scratch our noses, throw up and listen to VU/Soft Machine albums. But they wouldn’t like that would they?
andus
October 17, 2008 at 4:59 pmI you heard the one about the titanic, It sunk because it wasn’t the titanic, they used a different ship because the titanic was not finished in time, When it sunk they took the real titanic apart and sold it as scrap to prevent people from finding out and prosecuted them.
alistairliv
October 17, 2008 at 5:06 pmThere is a Subterranea Brittanica web site which explores old Cold War bunkers and secret tunnels and lost railway stations (like Bishopsgate)
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/
chris
October 17, 2008 at 5:11 pmClassic! I think i am going to start a website called “Titanic – The Truth” to propogate that theory. then when everyone starts believing it i can go and smash up the rusty old washing machine in my neighbour’s garden and sell the parts on ebay for a fortune claiming they were from the ‘real’ Titanic.
Or something.
🙂
Sam
October 17, 2008 at 5:20 pmOne thing that does concern me is that The History Channel over here (US) has, in the last 6 years or so gone from showing lightweight yet entertaining shows about history, to a diet of programmes about UFOs, Bigfoot, Nostradamus, Atlantis and most worryingly – Christian archaeology. In the latter, the possibility of the whole thing being a myth is never mentioned and Christ and others are described as historical figures without any need to back up fantasy with fact. I’m assuming that they get heavily funded by Christian groups. The Atlantis shows are similarly ridiculous, with Atlantis described as an actual place, occupied in some prehistoric period by a technologically advanced master race. As far as I’m aware Atlantis was used by Plato as an example of an ideal society but was obviously an illustration to an idea. I believe you have a History Channel in Britain. Do they show the same crap over there as here?