Protest And Survive / No Scapegoat
Debut release on Inferno Records run by Tempest record shop in Birmingham, next release was by Dead Wretched which is also a slab of tip top pogo punk.
This band I know hardly anything about except they reminded me of Discharge at the time of purchasing this 7″ single (except for Soldier Boy, that sounded like Dead Wretched), and the vocalist had a mohican when I caught them performing live.
All the rest of the memories are now faded into some kind of UK82 haze in my brain somewhere.
Lazy journalism at its most frustrating. Sorry about that…off to bed!
Chris
October 14, 2008 at 4:08 pmAndus, please email me either via this site or c/o Andy Martin. cannot stress just how helpful that video of Digbeth NF march could be for a friend’s project. And absolutely correct what you say, pretty much everyone back then had long hair.
PS: members of 4-Skins were BM, which is why the could say in all honesty they weren’t NF!! Only in one of their later line-ups did NF members join. Though it beggars belief how anyone could have laboured under any illusions re their position regarding race after reading the lyrics to ‘One Law For Them’ with its allusion to Enoch Powell’s ‘Rivers of Blood’ speech.
andus
October 14, 2008 at 4:42 pmThat Film is on Vhs, and I don’t know which one I have about 60 vhs and no vhs player to play them, though I can probably narrow it down to about 20, its part of some other documentary, the actual march is about 10 minutes long in all. John Tyndal is on it later on, standing on a soapbox in an Asian area of Brum, shouting, they are scum, they are vermin, which was legal in those days,
The 4 skins being BM is worser than the NF. In 1981 I was 16, a bit niave, I thought they were singing about One law for the rich and one for the poor in, ‘One law for them’, we did not have a lyric sheet and could not hear what they were singing, my mate gave me a tape of then, i thought they were brilliant, until the southall riots came on the news later that summer, at this point i had not heard of crass or anarcho punk, i had left school but had to wait 6 months before receiving any benefit, which meant i was going nowhere until september. In those days skinheads were regarded as Slade fans or being into the Specials, which the Skinheads in my area were.
andus
October 14, 2008 at 6:29 pmhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=40xflgQhDXU.
Chris. I have located this film for you its on you tube link above, and its from the film Rude boy about The Clash, that saves me from watching dozens of vhs films on someone elses machine. a highly improbable scenario.
baron von zubb
October 14, 2008 at 6:47 pmAndus you ever read ‘terror or love’ by Bobi Buaman?.
A bit of insight into why the uprising – smack transformation takes place.
There was certainly an element of that for us/me anyway
andus
October 14, 2008 at 7:31 pmNo I have not, I will check it out. I always thought smack was introduced into society by the authoritys to stamp out rebellion. theres bags of evidence for this, the community leader for the african community in Handsworth stated that Herion became available in large ammounts after the riots, funnily enough the same thing happened in Moss Side, Toxteth. St Pauls. after the riots more smack arrived. direct from the C I A no doubt.
I took methodone once, I have to say it was the most useless drug I ever took, If only the Goverment could get us all on smack they wouldn’t have too many problems then. People have told me that smack takes away all pain mental and physical, Fuck that, I want my pain, it makes me tough so that I can survive.
andus
October 14, 2008 at 7:41 pmIncidently, Sieg Sieg Sputnik were due to play on the night of the riots in Handsworth, it was cancelled, theres another piece of useless information for you.
Sam
October 14, 2008 at 8:57 pm“all jews become equal with us through death, which implies that jewish people think they are above everyone else.”
Actually this is true.
Andus, it’s not my fault my mates died and I can’t remember encouraging anyone to shoot up though I can’t remember dissuading anyone either. I gave up in 83 and at that point I’d lost one friend (Scarecrow) who OD’d on Tuinol in 1980. And he certainly didn’t need any encouragement from me. As Baron said, you can’t blame other people. I just said ‘NO’ for a bit then curiosity got the best of me. I regret the acid a lot more actually. That really did fuck me up.
andus
October 14, 2008 at 9:33 pmSorry about that mate I spoke a bit out of turn there, that was below the belt. I actually said ‘sort of encourged them’ What I mean’t/should have said is that addicts generally encourage each other. You mentioned you’d lost 12 of your mates or was that Rich Kid, Thats horrendous, thats why I commented that I was glad I wasn’t there.
So you think Eliot was anti-semitic as well then, heres the actual lines.
Phelebas the Phoenician, a fortnight dead,
Forgot the cry of gulls, the deep sea swell
And the profit and loss.
A current under sea
Picked his bones in whispers, As he rose and fell
He passed the stages of his age and youth
Entering the whirlpool
Gentile or jew
O you who turn the wheel and look windward,
Consider phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
Those are the apparent anti-semetic lines,
Chris
October 14, 2008 at 11:32 pmAndus, many thanks for that link but If the chance ever arises, i would dearly like a copy (or to borrow the original VHS) on video as the friend who this footage would be invaluable to has never been on a computer in his life!
And, with respect, may I suggest it was the rather more mundane matter of Soviet forces invading Afghanistan in 1979 and the subsequent opening of export channels for opium that was to ‘blame’ for the increase in heroin availability throughout the West rather than any CIA involvement.
I would be very surprised if any CIA operatives had ever even heard of Moss Side, Toxteth or St Pauls let alone gave a fuck about them. Markets open to supply demand. It’s capitalism, not conspiracy. 🙂
Sam
October 15, 2008 at 2:02 amNo idea if Elliot was an anti semite. I’m agreeing that jews think they’re better than everyone else. My mum’s side are Jewish. I have lost at least 12 mates through drugs but that’s been over a 30 year period. My college friend Sean OD’d on smack 7 years ago. He wasn’t using drugs when I knew him. Just heard about Sniper a few months back. Really not the type to get into smack. I agree it’s the most useless drug imaginable. I remember us at Iverson Rd. Baron, myself, wank…on a ‘good’ night we’d be catatonic on a sofa, intermittently scratching, getting irritable at one another and throwing up. There are very few creative bi products as just existing in a warm and fuzzy state is the ideal.
I’m dubious as to the powers that be introducing certain drugs too. I’m with Chris. It’s supply and demand. Also there’s a natural tendency for the more adventurous souls to experiment with different drugs which creates trends. I can’t see that speed is more of a threat than tuinol or heroin. Speed freaks are usually too preoccupied with talking about obscure B sides to think seriously about civil disobedience.
andus
October 15, 2008 at 9:34 amI would be very surprised if any CIA operatives had ever even heard of Moss Side, Toxteth or St Pauls let alone gave a fuck about them. Markets open to supply demand. It’s capitalism, not conspiracy.
It doesn’t quite work like that mate, the cia sell it to to gangters in The US, or else where who then they bring it over, the cia don’t fly over from the pentagon and drop directly into Moss side, Have a brain.
It was the soviet invasion of Afghanistan that opened it up. The mujabadean sold it to the cia in return for guns.
The film Rude boy I have not got, I lent it to a mate years ago, now that i found out what film it was on i have checked my vhs collection, however you know which film it is. There are other scenes in the film of that march in the movie I seem to recall, and the film was about The Clash’s rar tour, and i think it was more likely to have been 1978 than 1976.
On that you tube site there is footage of Nf marching through lewisham in 1976, also Martin Webster marching on his own. !!! ha ha.
smith3000
October 15, 2008 at 10:19 amSam, maybe the Jewish side of your family think they’re better than the gentile side of your family but I don’t think that means you can say that all Jews think they’re better than everybody else.
And poppy production was turned into an industry to finance the original mujahadeen campaign against the Russians. Of course the CIA were also involved in financing and arming the anti-Russian forces in Afghanistan (including one Osama bin Laden) but smack was a means to an end – and all the people strung out on smack in the west were just so much collateral damage.
Personally, I just don’t think the forces of evil are that organised ..
baron von zubb
October 15, 2008 at 10:30 amIts ironic that both you two above may have been in Hackney at the same time, both slagging off junkies and may be even sharing a pint.
That whole chris Low / heretic thread makes very interesting reading andus if u ever gett a minute. Lots of diverse opinions about all sorts of stuff that you may be both angered & intrigued by.
It was me n Wank who had the whole Burroughs / Velvets ideology to back up our smack use.
And bugga you all, I shall defend our right to be asleep whilst awake till dawn.
CIA never gave a shit about smack as social control overtly.
However its well documented that smack gained its hold in the west because 4 CIA operatives working in Asia after WW11 funded insurgencies in that theatre by exporting smack into US cities. They started off in Korea and ended up in Iran over a period of 2 decades. Graphic novel called ‘spooks’ -i think -chronicles that.
And about jews .
Of course were the fuckin best. Best god, best fashion-rasta-best birds,-lauren bacall-,best music – jazz n the sex pistols, best grub-homous/mezze- best brains -einstein- best suffering -holocaust-,best family-hitlers’ gran-,and best spelling,moi.
you’re all anti sematic disco loving mods
Oi vay gavult
smith3000
October 15, 2008 at 10:41 amHa ha, Zubb, you are the voice of reason! a prince among men!
andus
October 15, 2008 at 10:52 amPersonally, I just don’t think the forces of evil are that organised .
They’re not, its not the whole cia or the whole goverment involved in drug trafficing, the cia is broken up into sections, and there are corrupt sections with corrupt ministers who either turn a blind eye, are payed off or scared off,
Its mainly done for money. and cia drug trafficing mainly takes place in South America. Ask yourselves how these thousands of tons of smack get into the country, on 10s of thousands of little boats and little smugglers I presume few of which are caught if thousands of tons get through,
I have read the whole thread well all but the last 20% of it which I will finish today, yeah it does make very interesting reading.
It was Hitlers great grandfather who was Jewish not his gran.
hail YAHWEH
andus
October 15, 2008 at 11:08 amAnyway I reckon its all bullshit, the people on the site who have done copulous ammounts of smack and glue and those tubes which pump gas up your nose, not to mention the es and other stuff, its all bullshit I tell you.
How do I know this,
Simple,
Your brains are working far too well for you to have engaged in excessive drug taking,
Ha Ha, You’ve been rumbled
caught out,
exposed.
fraudsters.
Phil R
October 15, 2008 at 11:19 amOr maybe excessive drug taking dos’nt effect brain function as much as you were lead to believe!
andus
October 15, 2008 at 11:35 amI expect thats why the psychiatric wards are teeming with junkies and x junkies
Ian S
October 15, 2008 at 11:55 amSome Iranian exiles sunk their savings into smack and brought a lot of gear over after they fled the Iranian Revolution led by Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979.
Opium was embedded in Persian/Iranian life. People who reached an advanced age under the Shah used to get a huge slab of opium delivered to their door, to help ease the pains of old age.
Here you just get a telegram off the Queen.
andus
October 15, 2008 at 1:32 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking
http://www.ciadrugs.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_and_Contra%27s_cocaine_trafficking_in_the_US
http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/cia_drug_trafficking.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/cia.html
http://www.wethepeople.la/ciadrugs.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1998_cr/980507-l.htm
http://www.voxfux.com/features/cia_drug_trafficking.html
Evidence of CIA Drug Trafficking
Stich had been gathering information on CIA drug trafficking for decades. He first encountered these activities while he was an airline captain flying for Japan Airlines out of Tokyo and also out of Beirut, Baghdad and other Middle East locations in the early 1950s. While talking to other pilots and in normal pilot-to-pilot conversations, many pilots described to him that they were flying for CIA-related operations and airlines and hauling drugs. They made no big deal out of it; it was simply another job for which pilots were increasingly involved. These pilots included those who flew for Air America, Civil Air Transport, and other covert CIA operations.
Over the next four decades Stich continued to receive information about the CIA drug trafficking from pilots who actually flew the drugs. Some of these pilots were from covert CIA airlines including Air America, and some of them came to work for the same airline that he worked for. These pilots had no agenda or reason to fabricate these comments to their fellow pilots. They were speaking the truth.
During the past ten years Stich developed many sources in the CIA and DEA who had direct knowledge of the CIA drug trafficking. He learned that it wasn’t only the CIA involved in these criminal activities. The drug trafficking included the CIA, DEA, the military, the State Department, the White House’s National Security Council, among others. Thousands of hours of often deposition-like questioning was involved
These activities are detailed and documented in the third edition, hard cover book, Defrauding America, and the first edition of Drugging America. Example of his many sources who are listed in the book are:
FBI Special Agent who repeatedly reported CIA drug trafficking to his supervisors and to FBI Director William Sessions, and to Congress. Some of these drug activities were funding terrorist cells based in New Jersey and New York. Justice Department personnel retaliated against him for reporting these matters and falsely charged him with a federal offense (once using a government credit card to refuel his personal automobile being used on government business), and then having New York state prosecutors charge him with offenses involving boys. The extraordinary 80-year sentence insured that his exposure actions would be silenced and that he would be discredited. Paradoxically, the terrorists who crashed an American and United Boeing 767 into the World Trade Center are believed to have received some of their funding and/or assistance from the New Jersey and New York terrorist cells that were previously protected by Justice Department personnel (and a former New York City mayor).
Chris
October 15, 2008 at 2:38 pmmate, you are taking the piss surely? While those “quick, grab the elephant transqelizers and don your tin-pot hat” conspiraloon sites are good for a laugh i would no sooner take them as an authority on anything than the old guy in the cowboy hat who shouts at the traffic outside Camden Tube station.
It’s a conspiracy theory. Admittedy not so absurd as the conspiracy theories that allege the Pentagon/CIA was behind 9/11 or that the Asian tsunami was in fact an Israeli aquatic missile test…or that the world is controlled by extra-terrestial lizards (aka, ‘Jews’ behind closed doors) but just as ridiculous.
NB: Penguin, maybe you should remove the links to those sites that link to to other extreme right wing and anti-semetic sites? Funny how that shit always seems to go hand-in-hand with conspiraloonery….
and as for Mr Rodney Stich, I wouldn’t really put much faith in someone who runs a website called ‘Conspiracy Planet’ and claims amongst other things that the beheading videos were all faked and the ‘victims’ are now all living it up on some tropical island; that the moon landings were faked; Arnold Swartznegger is the anti-christ; that gold can be created from simple household minerals or that cosmetics are produced from aborted foetuses and circumcised foreskins (yup, dem pesky Jews up to their evil ways again!).
but then again, before he invented his colourful ex-CIA history (he was a commercial pilot, everything else he claims is fabrication) and got on the lucrative comspiracy theory bandwagon his last attempt at fame and fortune was trying to sell faked HIMMLER Diaries!!!
Jeeeeezzzzuuus, I wouldn’t believe this chancer to tell me the time of day let alone be an authority on national security data, for fucks sake!
PS: City mayors do not generally have ‘terrorist cells’ under their departmental patronage, and i suspect if the CIA conceivably ever HAD considered such dastardly deeds, in the cold war era they may have been more concerned with targetting Moscow or the Eastern Bloc than some shitty housing schemes in Liverpool and Bristol. No?
Andus, apologies for the tone of this post. I do not mean any offence. I am just fucking sick to the back teeth with all this conspiracy theory bollocks, which is basically the new religion for the millennium only with its followers even more dogmatic than christians.
Sam
October 15, 2008 at 3:13 pm“or that the world is controlled by extra-terrestial lizards (aka, ‘Jews’ behind closed doors)”
Actually this is true (my mum’s side are Jews behind closed doors).
andus
October 15, 2008 at 3:30 pmI didn’t know know anything about that Stich fellow, I just posted a few randow posts after doing a google search on ciadrugtrafficing.
I find incredulous that even today people still think the cia are all good blokes who don’t get involved in anything dodgy.
if the 9-11 conspiracy theory is so absurd, why is that the ex president of Italy says its an inside job, along with the German defence minister, the russian foreign minister, the entire Japanese goverment, the entire Venezullan Goverment, labour mp Michael meacher. to name just a very very few, how is it the United Nations and the Eu are currently investigating it, and Michael Moore now believes the inside job theory and is apparently producing a film about it.
You seem to want to label all these suspicious people as David icke nut cases.
As for me I have an open mind on it, of course it may not have been an inside job, but I do think its mighty suspicious. especially when you look at the facts and ignore the nut cases who have gotten involved it it.
They didn’t target shitty housing estates, it filtered through, and the powers that be thought, lets relax on catching the dealers, cause they’re all dissidents who been rioting, lets relax our drug busting operations, cause the smack will make them inactive.
Sam
October 15, 2008 at 3:37 pmApparently the first recorded wave of intravenous opiate abuse in the States was after the civil war (1861-65). Wounded soldiers had been treated with morphine and found they liked it. You could send off for the drug and syringes via the Sears catalogue. I’m sure there was a bit of encouragement of friends at that time too. The victorians also tended to take all kinds of ‘snake oil’ remedies for everything under the sun, which were largely opiate and alcohol based. This was especially prevalent with women as drinking was socially taboo. The CIA didn’t fund the Opium that flooded into europe from China in the 19th century either. Drug taking is as old as mankind.
Chris
October 15, 2008 at 3:53 pmQUOTE: if the 9-11 conspiracy theory is so absurd, why is that the ex president of Italy says its an inside job, along with the German defence minister, the russian foreign minister, the entire Japanese goverment, the entire Venezullan Goverment, labour mp Michael meacher. to name just a very very few, how is it the United Nations and the Eu are currently investigating it
…….yawn, only *they aren’t* and *not one of the members of govt you list has ever said any such thing*.
The film Michael Moore is making is about the conspiracy theory INDUSTRY as, he finds it astonishing how much money is involved, how many suckers fall for their crap, and how sinister the rightwing , anti semetic agenda behind most of its leading lights is!!!
like all their claims, what you listed is just further proof of the cherry-picking, media manipulation and downright lies propogated by the chancers whose bank balance is dependant on giving credibility to their theories.
NB: always an idea to check the credibility and veracity of these theories here:
http://www.skeptic.com
http://www.snopes.com
🙂
Ian S
October 15, 2008 at 4:02 pmThe CIA did indeed not fund the opium that flooded into China during the 19th century.
It was the British East India Company, backed up by the British government, that forced China to accept opium imports from India, with the result that around 1 in 10 Chinese adults were reckoned to be opium addicts by the end of the 19th century.
Chinese resistance to this was smashed during the two Opium Wars, and the scale of opium addiction was only cut back decades later under the Communists, who gave addicts a 6-month period to get clean or face being shot.
Sam
October 15, 2008 at 4:08 pm“gave addicts a 6-month period to get clean or face being shot.”
Beats just saying ‘no’.
Sorry….I thought the stuff came from China. My mistake. However, there was a big market in Europe too and it was legal at the time. Edgar Allen Poe, Lewis Carroll, Fuseli, Coleridge – all managed to be creative with it. Hmmmm…..of course we just sat on the sofa and listened to Soft Machine albums. I should have tried my hand at epic romantic poetry.
Nic
October 15, 2008 at 4:13 pmI’m very, very sceptical about Conspiracy Theories for precisely the reasons Chris points out: they seem to operate like a form of religious narcotic, allowing a form of absolution of responsibility for any situation which people find themselves in (“It’s not my fault – it was all thanks to the freemasons / Jews/ Martians etc”)…
It’s amazing how virulent the Conspiracy Theory meme is…
The other day I posted a little comment elsewhere online about how my little heart had taken a jump up upon hearing the news that Jorge Haider had goose-stepped for the last time…Almost immediately, a person I know well (and who posesses an active mind) commented “Well, yes…but don’t you think it is strange that he died alone in his car? Politicans don’t just crash on roads at night”…Let the conspiracy begin!
I don’t believe that there was a deliberate attempt to flood the streets of British cities with Heroin after the early 1980’s riots…
Having said that, I do believe that the CIA funded and were involved in covert operations which involved (on occasion) the drug trade: it’s another days work in the Intelligence Services, rather than a conspiracy (and based more around the generation of funds than around focused attempts to exert social control via narcotics, although this can sometimes be a welcome side effect)…
Nic
October 15, 2008 at 4:14 pmHow about recitals of epic Romantic poetry to the backdrop of ‘We Did It Again’…
Chris
October 15, 2008 at 4:15 pmIf I recall correctly, under the Agrarian Bill, Opium commercially grown for medical use so was freely available as it could be harvested using traditional methods from practically any country fields.
Edinburgh was one of the main opium growing areas in the UK and there are certain parts which, even now, during the summer are covered with big pink opium poppies.
yum! yum! 🙂
Chris
October 15, 2008 at 4:20 pmQUOTE: it’s another days work in the Intelligence Services, rather than a conspiracy
EXACTLY, Nic!! I think the ‘real’ conspiracy (hardly surprising as their main icons are Reaganite, neo-cons like Alex Jones) is thet they simply make CAPITALISM more palatable and a sweeter pill to swallow , tghos emascularing any resistance to it. How much freedom-constraining legislation has been introduced whilst the self-appointed defenders of our ‘freedom’ typing away on their conspiraloon sites?
that said, i’d sooner believe in the virgin birth, which would only involve the duping of one person, than their 9/11 theories which would involve the complicity of TENS OF FUCKING THOUSANDS!!!!!
Sam
October 15, 2008 at 4:23 pmIn Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A Pleasure dome
ERRECT!
Oh no….that’s Frankie isn’t it.
Sam
October 15, 2008 at 4:30 pmOf course none of us Anarchos ever fell for any conspiracy theories…..