The Apostles / Primal Chaos / Black Flag / The Heretics
Man about town, obscure punk enthusiast and general good guy, Chris Low late of Political Asylum, The Apostles, Oi Polloi, in the 1980’s and The Parkinsons in 1990’s, handed this tape to me on his birthday along with a load of others. I have uploaded this late because it is unfortunately been dubbed / copied onto tape by horrid mono means, i.e it only comes out of one speaker…bummer! Two other tapes Conflict at Brixton Ace 1982 supplied by Mark ‘Vegas’ Palmer starts off stereo then clicks into mono. Sadly to say Lugworm supplied a cassette tape recorded from Spaceward Studios of The Mobs LP recorded there. Not interested in The Mob LP as such but there is an alternative mix of ‘Stay’ which I was absolutely interested in. This track also plays on one speaker. Point of fact – nothing wrong with my cassette playback system!
Any how, I do not like putting up faulty or mono cassettes onto this site, but this has to be an exception because of the rarity value. The Apostles, Primal Chaos, Black Flag, and The Heretics all for the price of…well nothing. Not sure of the history of the tape, no doubt Chris will comment on it. Not sure of the line up, track listing or anything else. Again I hope Chris or his chum Nic will comment. On the B-Side of the tape is a Flux live gig and a Napalm Death practice. All I the info I got what was written on the tape itself, just band names basically. I actually have not heard this tape yet cos wifey needed me to do something so I just let it play…hope Bucks Fizz does not come on half way through the recordings!
Info from Nic:
The Apostles:
Pete The Plectrum (later formed part of ‘The Hunt’ on the first LP)
Some Men Are Born To Rule (the first song the group ever wrote)
Antichrist
? (This isn’t from this time period if I remember correctly – it features the drum machine: is it ‘The Island’, Chris?)
Solidaridad Proletaria (This is the original title at the time of recording: it was later changed to ‘A New World In Our Hearts’ and was re-recorded on both tape and vinyl)
Killing for Peace
Proletarian Autonomy (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Time Bomb
Stoke Newington 8 (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Primal Chaos – Rehearsal 1982:
Systems Slave (This isn’t part of their ‘Fighting for a Future’ rehearsal tape)
Black Flag – Rehearsal 1981:
The Master Race (Earliest version of this song that I heard)
Waiting for the All Clear (later recorded by The Apostles, but this version features Matt Mcleod on vocals
The Heretics – Rehearsal 1980:
No Character
Jake from Heretics on stage with Iggs of Crass 1979
The Heretics
Sam
April 30, 2008 at 12:51 pmHere you go Jake…it’s like helping an old man get on the bus:
https://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=751#comments
I must admit, this site is a bit confusing. Thixofix was officially, that most 70s of things, cork tile adhesive. Every time my mum asked what the smell was in my bedroom I’d tell her I was putting up another cork tile notice board.
Personally I’d prefer the Heretics style ‘cut me own ‘ed off’ style drinking session but we can take it easy if you like. Maybe an apperetif of butane followed by a couple of shandies and round off the evening with some nail varnish remover. Actually I remember sniffing Cas’ nail varnish on our adventure in Hemel Hempstead. Me and Sii often joke about that trip as our plan to get home was to ‘take the milk train’. I imagined us riding Woody Guthrie-like on this mythical transportation but how did you find it and how did you know it was going to Kilburn as opposed to say Glasgow? How did you get off the milk train? Was there anywhere to sit on the milk train? We just got attacked by the Whitton Mob instead and scrounged a lift with some Damned fans from Crystal Palace who’d hired a coach.
Amazing you still know Tony Black. Last I saw of him was when I bumped into him late at night in West End Green in about 1984. We exchanged pleasantries for 10 minutes or so, then he asked if I could spare 50p ‘for something to eat’. I’d love to see Spider again.
Me and Leah used to mourn for Tony Black. We would reminisce how he came to us as a sweet, shy young man and within months turned into a slavering dope fiend. I lost contact with Leah about 10 years ago. She was last spotted being a sculptor in Ireland. One of those people I always immediately get along with. Another unique character.
Val
April 30, 2008 at 1:44 pmHi there Jake and Sam – well, its been very entertaining reading through all of this thread! Good to hear about you both. Last time I remember seeing you Sam, was at Westbere when you lived there with Brett and Angie, looking at your photos (doing an art degree at St Martins?). I love the idea of your current band!
And Jake – we already did this fairly recently… Good to hear you’re doing well in Brighton – do you see much of John (from DD)?
Rich Kid
April 30, 2008 at 4:55 pmErm, old man looking for the bus here.
Erm which Leah?You mean Leah & her mate Bridgitte ‘Scrubber’, Leah?The Leah who once said to me ‘thank god for warm blokes’ ‘cos she didnt have enough tuinol in her?
Hi Val
Erm which John & which DD.
At least Sii is just as slow as me…
‘Ah Thixofix, the 16 year-old single malt of adhesives.’
Indeed.
I’ve now got to negotiate this, sams & bobs site.Its gonna take me days…
Rich Kid
April 30, 2008 at 5:33 pmOoh, its all over there, on the other page.
That interview.
I remember that I may have had Phil down as quoted as, ‘the thickest person I ever met’ but he made much more sense on that day.
Me? I was trying to be clever & just sounded like a ‘girls willy’, eh Mr S
Great pics.Cheers for your efforts.
But seeing as our best tracks were ‘what did I do?’ ‘I hate flowers’ & ‘Victim’ and they aint around the legend is just gonna have to live on…
BTW its all ‘Crow on drums.Mr Heresy, he just couldnt do that.
Sam, no jokes,I still hum the tune of WDID as im mooching about sometimes.And if something goes wrong I just speed it up .
Always works .Great therapy.A classic tune.
…’I hate flowers
They make me sneeze
I hate flowers
and I havent got a hankerchief ‘…
Superb couplet..
Yeah well, Im now a landscaper, lots of plants involved,so this has, at times, become a problem.
Its been diagnosed as …
‘rhinitous’
How middle aged is that?
But..I wasnt lying.
Righty ho then, better send the link to ‘the heretics’ page to me niece, so she stops revising for her A S levels, gets all heretical & goes off to join the circus.
Again,cheers for all your efforts.
Rich Kid
April 30, 2008 at 5:35 pmSii , you good? What you up to mate?
Sam
April 30, 2008 at 6:11 pmSorry about the bus comment Jake but no offence meant. I’m speaking as someone who needs reading glasses to work a cell phone. And I usually get my boy to do it.
I hadn’t thought about the landscaper thing in relation to I Hate Flowers. That’s hysterical. It’s a great tune. I think the full verse is:
I hate flowers pink and yellow,
I hate flowers in my garden,
I hate flowers they make me sneeze,
I hate flowers and I haven’t got a handkerchief.
WDID is one of the songs which isn’t just a bunch of barre chord changes. I managed to work out a semi-Steve Jones/Chuck Berry thing. Most bands at this time all sounded alike as we took the Mark P ‘learn 3 chords – now form a band’ thing seriously. I think Nazi Born and Bred (or as Si said recently ‘Nazi B + B including full German breakfast’) is a good song though the recording’s shite. It includes the memorable line:
“We make pork pies
We make sausage rolls,
It tastes pretty bad but it’s good for the ego”.
I realized recently the tune is the same as Havana Affair by the Ramones which we liked a lot at the time. No Character is a good tune too.
I was referring to Leah who was good mates with Mitch for a long time…probably did hang about with Le Scrubere for a bit too. A refreshingly blunt individual to this day. I’d love to hear from her. I miss her a lot. And Mitch or ‘Meesh’ as skinhead John used to call her. Leah said she bumped into her (would have been 10-12 years ago now) and said she was into motorbikes and living in Brixton. She had a magnificent photo collection of EVERYONE. Be good to get them up on this site.
Val…good to hear from you. The last I saw you was indeed during my brief stint in Westbere Rd. Yeah I was at St Martin’s and later Royal College. Where are you living now? I remember you were good mates with Mitch at one time. Any sightings?
Sam
Sam
April 30, 2008 at 6:36 pmHere’s a couple of pics from back in the day:
Me. Bald. Carling Black Label. Slaughter Badge.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2237/mexs6.jpg
Looking sappily in love. With Anna ’79.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9189/newstuff4tq0.jpg
Me and Mr C. 78 I think. I was eating Gypsy Creams (I have a photograpic memory for useless details).
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2551/newstuff2yl8.jpg
Campbell Buildings era. With Brummy Sue:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8617/newstuff6tb6.jpg
Penguin • Post Author •
April 30, 2008 at 7:38 pmSam – stuck these up in photo gallery under subfolder ‘puppies and their friends’ – check out the other photos, there are loads and loads, example Westbere Road etc you may recognise a whole load of people.
Pete Dochety (recentish UK tabloid bad boy in case you do not know) ripped of your style then from the look of the last photo!
Sam
April 30, 2008 at 8:18 pmCheers Penquin. Some familiar faces in there. I’ve got some others that I’ll post if you’re interested.
Sam
Penguin • Post Author •
April 30, 2008 at 8:52 pmYeah go on then, just do it like you did before Sam.
tony (Robbo)
April 30, 2008 at 9:07 pmHi Jake
It’s BrummieTony here , having read the blog it really is a blast from the past, glad to hear that your still alive and well, i thought you may have went under a few years ago.The last time I saw you was at Victoria Station in London in 1988 I had just finished my second year at Uni. It is great that you are still with Kate (I think that’s her name sorry) give her my regards. What the fuck ever to that Irish lunatic Tom Dolye or worse still Tom ( from the grave ) covney from West Hampstead, Christ what a life we had, it was just like a big shit mixer that threw people out and if you were lucky you survived. I stayed in Manchester following my graduation and now work in the Nuclear Industry, I am a Project Manager on large design and build projects, but also still a member of the exclusive look after your liver club which I think I graduated from at Daniels flat in Kilburn. Did I read you write that Mark Darrington spent 8 yrs in a Morocan Jail, what a fuckin nightmare what was the story behind that?. I joined the parachute Regiment reserve battallion in 1992 and served for 3 years, It was real crazy shit jumping out of Planes at 800 ft over Scotland with a 100lb pack , so in 1995 I said fuck this for a game of soldiers and went to work in HK for 5 yrs which was wild and really enjoyable.We left asia (Singapore ) and went travelling around the world for 6 months before returning to UK in 2000. I would love to see you and Kate one day in Brighton, but I don’t travel lightly these days, god knows what happended to Mitch, Keith Jones died of an overdose, what a whirl wind, speak soon, all the best
Tony,
Sam
May 1, 2008 at 2:09 amThere you are Tony.
I’ve just remembered that the Heretics interview (without pics) was printed in a French surrealist magazine. Why would a country famous for its philosophical minds print the barely cohesive rambings of 4 retarded north Londoners? Do the French not like soul boys? Did they adopt Phil’s political doctrine of ‘wandering about’. ‘Squatting c’est un methode intelligente’.
Rich Kid
May 1, 2008 at 6:10 pmBloody hell.
G’day Tony.Hows your Cantonese.? Mines non existent…
I got vague recollections of gretchin burbeling on about you being in HK but she wasnt making too much sense.Actually I remember & this is funny.I dont know where I got it from but I remember phoning HK, some random no. on the island that Id been led to beleive was yours.Of course all I got was an irate cantonese lady.Ive got absolutely no clue who gave me that no. or when it was.Possibly someone who thought that they knew ‘a brummie called tony’ that I bumped into whilst over there.I dunno the chronology seems to be all out though.The whole incident seems more likely to be a senile dementia thing..
Bad memories …Tom Doyle & Coveny.TD last heard of in Dublin after completing a long stretch in UK.But thats probably 10/15 years ago?Again I dunno where I got that from.TC no idea.
Darringtons story? No idea , Gretch said it was a smuggling thing.Went on about his missus,who was in there too, like I knew her.But of course I didnt. What could I say?We met in a pub in Brixton, not a good day.But shes Ok now so its fine.
I remember at one point we were all gonna do a parachute jump..
Good on yer that you did.Wild
Anyway Sam , Sii ,Tony if we give all our gossip now we’ll have fuck all to talk about when we go for this liver friendly piss up.
Sams back later in the year.If we still wanna do it then I’m sure we’ll be able to sort it out.Travelling lightly is not compulsory.
No worries about the bus mate.I usually get on OK in the end..
So back to The Heretics.
I read that ‘interview’.
Why anyone let alone a surrealist mag would want to print it is beyond me .
But possibly because of the 12 mins that are absent?
That presuumably was when Jake Obvious, polemicist extrordinaire,
put forth his bittingly sharp overview of capitalist social relations & set out the anti statist principles he became known for;those which made him both an underground hero & such a target of state repression later in life.
Actually I got a vague memory that there was no 12 mins at all & dibbol just agreed to put that in to stop himself, & us too, from losing face, as we’d said nothing, not one word of interest.Oh except the hamster.Jesus.
Anyway its brilliant.
A band that said nothing except in the 12 absent mins,
never gigged with the complete lineup & never made a record.
It really is the band that never was.
The look? ‘maximalist’ The content? ‘minimalist’
Maybe thats the surreal bit that the french instinctivly picked up on?
Rich Kid
May 1, 2008 at 6:14 pm“We make pork pies
We make sausage rolls,
It tastes pretty bad but it’s good for the ego”.
Fanatstic
Sam
May 1, 2008 at 7:16 pmSaying nothing? How very dare you.
“We play chords that don’t like each other. Our music is fast with lots of drums”.
I especially liked my:
“Fetish split up because we didn’t have any money or anything…”.
‘Anything’ covers guitars, amps, drums, rudimentary ability to play an instrument and musical talent.
And yet I recieved 2 or 3 phone calls a week for at least a year. My mum would dutifully write stuff down on bits of paper. “Yes dear, the Ejaculations from Bristol are interested in hearing a demo tape and Scum from the Clitz is interested in a gig in Leeds.”
Maybe they were even stupider than us? Si reckons the French liked it because they saw it as an example of British comedy.
tony (Robbo)
May 1, 2008 at 8:37 pmSam
Re Jake’s note above, do you have a date when you are thinking of coming to the UK this or next year, that liver therapy class in Brighton is gonna take some planning and a lot of browny points, but it’s got to be done .
Jake
Do you have a contact for Morocan Mark , it makes Simion Rose’s excursions in the Indian Bush seem like 2 weeks at centre parks , not that I have been there (honest). Jake do you recall an event in 66a or in 107 Iverson rd called the ‘Indian Lover’ it had a theme tune that said ‘Indian lover you’ll never recover’ and featured you in some long johns with a full on errection with a lot of scratching, quite sick really but then I think we all were in those days
Sam
May 2, 2008 at 1:43 amI’ve got no idea at the moment Tony but I’ll let you know ahead of time. Have you got a regime Jake as far as your liver’s concerned? I’ve not had a real test in 15 years and just try to take it easy but I do like a drink of a weekend. I can’t imagine giving everything up.
Sam
Sam
May 2, 2008 at 1:46 amBTW…if you check the other page you’ve turned into a belated sex symbol.
Rich Kid
May 2, 2008 at 1:25 pmU 3,Im actually burning with curiosity about the missing 20 years and would like more than nothing else to rabbit on about my own story, post photos of me balding bonce etc.But it would be more superfine to do it face to face,collectively or individually or whatever suits you.You’ve all got family responsabilities so I’ll fit it around that.And you as a group are in contact with each other so you got your own way of doing stuff already.
Our lives a pretty regular & routine but were flexable.
Tony I’d love for you & your family to come down here, but I fear our 1 bedroom flat would just be too uncomfortable for you all.
Still via this site or email something. I’ll get sorted out.
I’ve had a nice day doing some garden maintainance in the sun, thinking about dixie music.
Hope everyone elses was good too
J
Sam
May 2, 2008 at 1:37 pmI’d like to see some recent pics of you and please post more. Not sure I’ll be able to get back this year and I’m sure there won’t be any embarrassing silences when we do meet up.
Here’s one of my boy JD. He’s a better guitarist at 7 years old than I was at 17. He’s got a band with 2 mates at school called ‘The Heretics II’.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9803/img0534smallbu7.jpg
Sam
Rich Kid
May 2, 2008 at 2:18 pmFor some reason all the last comments wernt visible to me until after I’d posted so its a bit out of kilter
Cheers Tone, Long johns & a hard on.Nice!
What a superb image for those folk at KYPP to dwell on.
Moroccon Mark? No idea but I have got Gretchins current – 3 years old – no.
Shes still in contact with him I think.
Myself, I dunno if I can deal with
seeing him after so long
combined with the fact that hes still recovering
from those 8 years.
Obviously I met folk inside in BKK who were doing long stretches & youre never the same again.Something like that, to coin the cliche, scars you for life.(Read Waren Fellows ‘the damage done’)
No disrepect to anyone here who may have or know folk who have done the same & who are now cool, but nah, its too much for me.I dont want that type of damaged people in my life.
Sorry to say it & call me a cunt, whatever.
C’est la vie
Maybe a few more years down the line when hes more settled, I dunno
My mail ‘baronvonzubb@hotmail.com’ Mail us & I’ll get Gretchins no. to you if you want.
Sex symbol?Oh no its gonna be embarassing aint it…
Edit :dreamy aint I..
Did u really get that many calls? Wish I’d known at the time…
Its excellent comedy that.But we could actually string at least half a sentence together but well, not on that day.
But yeah,the ‘wandering about’ theory is a classic
Regime? I’ve given everything up but I was going that way anyway, b4 I found out 10 years ago .I use milk thistle when I remember.My LFT count is just under the line, actually a bit lower than 10 years ago.
I aint interested in going down the interferon route.Some of ’em are going on about how they’re developing new & better pharmas but for me whose symptoms are slight, I cant see the point.Its all about management.
Rich Kid
May 2, 2008 at 2:22 pmYour boy looks cool
Sam
May 2, 2008 at 3:41 pmI just had an overall physical for the first time ever. Aside from being a fat bastard with high cholesterol I’m ok apparently. The wife buys me milk thistle but I’m hopeless at remembering to take these things. I did get a liver biopsy when I first heard and I should probably get a new one. I agree regarding the Interferon. Sounds a bit experimental still and it knocks you out for a year or so. However, my dad died of liver disease as a result of Hep C (he was a haemophiliac) and it’s not a good way to go. Maybe we can all sit round in a circle and have a ‘workshop’? We can cry together and build a big bonfire.
Sam
May 2, 2008 at 4:18 pmHere’s me and the boy:
http://a875.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/101/l_df6c7caa8f6570d9a8f5977e6597323a
I imagine you Jake as quite a lean man.
Sam
May 2, 2008 at 4:21 pmThat didn’t work. It’s all very confusing:
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9273/img0799akf8.jpg
Penguin • Post Author •
May 2, 2008 at 5:00 pmChildren Of The Corn, Sam?
Sam
May 2, 2008 at 5:32 pmPortly gentleman of the corn.
Rich Kid
May 2, 2008 at 9:01 pmNot as lean as I’d like .
I seen ur pics you aint overweight.
Or is that a photoshop thing?
We all got them bellies
Imageshack , sometimes its a real headfuck..
Yeah Bog bin fires.Fab.
Rich Kid
May 2, 2008 at 9:30 pmTony re; Morrocan Mark. If you dont wanna go via Gretchin theres an organisation called Prisoners Abroad who will have been in contact with him whilst inside.They may have aftercare contact details that they wont give to you, but may be able to pass on yours to him
rich kid
May 3, 2008 at 11:44 amOh dear
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=26404638
they need to be told..
Sam
May 3, 2008 at 6:39 pmI accosted someone at the Electric Ballroom who was wearing a Heretics badge at the same time we were going.
“Is that us?” I asked.
“No…it’s us” he replied.
The rest of the conversation went:
“We’re The Heretics”.
“No you’re not…we’re The Heretics”.
I think there have been a few ‘The Heretics’ over the years. It’s a good name. I remember you came up with it Jake at your parents’ house. We were after something that sounded like The Damned. Something with religious overtones. We brain stormed to the best of our ability and eventually that popped out. Another we toyed with was The Disciples.
I think my two favourite punk band names are The Dentists and Shag Nasty.
Sam
May 3, 2008 at 6:41 pmBy the way…I’ve just informed Leigh Kendall of this thread. Hopefully he’ll show up and post.
Sam
Sam
May 3, 2008 at 7:09 pmHere’s 3 photos I dug out of dearly departed Keith Jones. These were taken in Brixton in ’83.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9864/keefkm9.jpg
I heard he OD’d but I never knew the circumstances. Anyone know? He was against shooting up for a long time but they all cave in the end.
Here are two of me and Mitch. Taken early 81, also in Brixton. We were signing on for a certain Robbo I recall. I also remember this was the day before the first Brixton Riots. I am wearing a tiny doll’s spoon earing given to me by Michelle. Bless her.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2531/keef1zp9.jpg