The Apostles / Primal Chaos / Black Flag / The Heretics
Man about town, obscure punk enthusiast and general good guy, Chris Low late of Political Asylum, The Apostles, Oi Polloi, in the 1980’s and The Parkinsons in 1990’s, handed this tape to me on his birthday along with a load of others. I have uploaded this late because it is unfortunately been dubbed / copied onto tape by horrid mono means, i.e it only comes out of one speaker…bummer! Two other tapes Conflict at Brixton Ace 1982 supplied by Mark ‘Vegas’ Palmer starts off stereo then clicks into mono. Sadly to say Lugworm supplied a cassette tape recorded from Spaceward Studios of The Mobs LP recorded there. Not interested in The Mob LP as such but there is an alternative mix of ‘Stay’ which I was absolutely interested in. This track also plays on one speaker. Point of fact – nothing wrong with my cassette playback system!
Any how, I do not like putting up faulty or mono cassettes onto this site, but this has to be an exception because of the rarity value. The Apostles, Primal Chaos, Black Flag, and The Heretics all for the price of…well nothing. Not sure of the history of the tape, no doubt Chris will comment on it. Not sure of the line up, track listing or anything else. Again I hope Chris or his chum Nic will comment. On the B-Side of the tape is a Flux live gig and a Napalm Death practice. All I the info I got what was written on the tape itself, just band names basically. I actually have not heard this tape yet cos wifey needed me to do something so I just let it play…hope Bucks Fizz does not come on half way through the recordings!
Info from Nic:
The Apostles:
Pete The Plectrum (later formed part of ‘The Hunt’ on the first LP)
Some Men Are Born To Rule (the first song the group ever wrote)
Antichrist
? (This isn’t from this time period if I remember correctly – it features the drum machine: is it ‘The Island’, Chris?)
Solidaridad Proletaria (This is the original title at the time of recording: it was later changed to ‘A New World In Our Hearts’ and was re-recorded on both tape and vinyl)
Killing for Peace
Proletarian Autonomy (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Time Bomb
Stoke Newington 8 (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Primal Chaos – Rehearsal 1982:
Systems Slave (This isn’t part of their ‘Fighting for a Future’ rehearsal tape)
Black Flag – Rehearsal 1981:
The Master Race (Earliest version of this song that I heard)
Waiting for the All Clear (later recorded by The Apostles, but this version features Matt Mcleod on vocals
The Heretics – Rehearsal 1980:
No Character
Jake from Heretics on stage with Iggs of Crass 1979
The Heretics
baron von zubb
September 27, 2008 at 6:14 pmFlattery will get u everywhere.
i have bulled out a wee bit. But to tell u the truth that pic is not the most erm, accuarate.Big front pockets on that garment…
But me mate Andrew, always the skiniest till he hit 40 has also bellied out.It happens to us all.
I’ll dig out some more.Then you’ll be truely freaked out!!
You Mr S for some unknown reason look exactly the same.
Or as i said earlier is it a photo shop moment? It being rock n roll .
pork wheres your pics.?
Sam
September 27, 2008 at 7:29 pmNah I’m definitely a portly gentleman. By ‘bulled out’ I don’t mean fat. Kind of Sean Connery-like if you know what I mean. A man as opposed to a kid or youth.
Sammy
baron von zubb
September 28, 2008 at 6:47 pmMiddle aged & portly. Its the euphamisms we use for the ‘f’ word. . .
I’m re reading this threead finding bits i aint seen yet.
Great contributions from all
Tops.
Jah Pork Pie
September 30, 2008 at 7:14 pmPorky piccies will follow when I get a chance (I’ve just got back from a weekend in London).
And I should warn you lot that you may need a widescreen monitor to enjoy the full “bulled out” Pork experience 🙂
PS Jake… I read that bit above where you mention that you couldn’t understand why me and Sam go the number one crops… you’ll see that I was just practising for middle age!
baron von zubb
October 1, 2008 at 12:48 pmAll the other threads have been hijacked by disco loving mods.Its outrageous
John No Last Name
October 1, 2008 at 6:28 pmI just couldn’t resist post number 666 on this thread.
Jah Pork Pie
October 10, 2008 at 1:25 amHey Baron
I’m no lover of disco, but I got into the soul stuff over the years. There’s very little that beats Al Green or Ray Charles going at it full throttle. And Curtis Mayfield knew about it all. Take away any Gospel references – and you can because you know that stuff came from the cotton fields and the whip – and it’s truthful enough.
As for the mod thing – I’m just jealous because I couldn’t fit into a mohair suit any better than Alexei Sayle could in the eighties.
I still don’t like The Fall, though.
Jah Pork Pie
October 10, 2008 at 2:22 amPS mate I got halfway through editing the Brixton riots bit of the book now – strange days, huh?
Sam
October 11, 2008 at 5:46 pm669 responses to: The Heretics – Jewlery Jewlery/Swiss Cottage Fun City
Jah Pork Pie
October 13, 2008 at 2:03 amNever really got the bling thing (I did get up to 27 body piercings in my crazier days [before the Depakote kicked in and I realised I’d descended into self parody – never a good thing] but I don’t think stainless steel jewellery counts as bling). The Swiss Cottage boozer was always worth a pint or two though, as I remember it.
baron von zubb
October 13, 2008 at 9:39 amI thought the plan was to leave it at 666 so we could be -more- infamous forever. . .
Riots ?
Not me gov. Its all fiction.
I think me n Robbo (?) went up to Toxteth to have a look.
Some vague memory of being freezing cold on me own in Pontifract services, which is as far as i got. Tony went to Liverpool . Maybe. I actually cant remember. So blah blah…
Sam
October 14, 2008 at 8:31 pmMore shameless promotion here but here’s our band’s video for our single:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWdnN-R8vRE
Features the neighbourhood and my boy and our neighbour’s daughter shaking a leg towards the end.
Sam
October 17, 2008 at 10:26 pm673 responses to The Heretics: The kids in West Hampstead on heroin that inspired rock god Ian (out of The Cult).
baron von zubb
October 18, 2008 at 5:02 pmOnly 27 to go.
Who ARE the varukers anyway?
Great vid & single Sam.
Sam
October 19, 2008 at 12:41 amNo idea who they are. And did they kickstart an unhygenic subculture? I think not. Glad you liked the vid Jakey. The opening shot is our hill!
baron von zubb
October 20, 2008 at 9:51 amYou were a seriously talented artist, I remember. Heard you did cartoons for the music press. That true? You still do any visual art? You teach but do you exhibit? You could stick a bit up here when you got a min.
Sam
October 20, 2008 at 1:35 pmI did freelance photography for a year or so and had a couple of photos in NME. That’s the extent of my assiciation with that. But I went to art school in the eighties/early nineties as a painter. I was always torn between that and music. Art gets very winky wanky and I always hated gallery owners and all those sloney cunts. It gets lonely too, stuck on your own in a studio for 8 hours a day. I like playing music because it’s something you create with other people and the immediate reaction from the audience is what counts. It’s funny but our experience in The Heretics, short as it was is really band politics in a nutshell. Soap operas and drama and jealosies and alliances…..and 2 or 3 gigs.
I decided to quit painting 9 years ago, but a kind soul paid for a studio for me a couple of years ago and I got back into it for a bit. I was painting local landscapes, motorways and shopping malls and suburbia cropping up. I’ll post a couple of examples if you like.
Penguin • Post Author •
October 20, 2008 at 1:38 pmSend them to my email Sam, I will post them up in a new section of photo gallery.
Sam
October 20, 2008 at 1:45 pmThese aren’t my best but I’ve got some more somewhere. I’ll try and dig them out. I’ve just remembered that Jackson Pollock type thing you and Wank did in your bedroom at 66a. Happy days that brief period before the fall. The smell of wet housepaint always reminds me of moving into Lymington Rd. Very positive smell.
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6769/img0366xo8.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1305/sitesmalluz3.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5131/img0364hy1.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1908/mg3004ow0.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/524/chairsmallux2.jpg
Sam
October 20, 2008 at 4:10 pmDon’t know if you saw these earlier in the thread Jake:
Your knees Jake – from a sketchbook I kept at the time. Everything had a fucking caption. I think I’d recognize them anyway.
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7053/keef6vw7.jpg
This one is self explanatory. Probably chemically inspired but I don’t remember.
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2821/keef5hh4.jpg
Gretchen in Wank’s room. His ‘God Save the King’ banner in background.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6007/gretchtd8.jpg
Sam
baron von zubb
October 21, 2008 at 6:42 pmGreat to see your art mate.
More would be supafine.
I ‘pollocked’ a wall in everywhere I lived till ’84. I think thats what Kay , my better half saw in me. Not just this toe nail biting gauging snot gobbler, who was on the run from the boys in blue.
She thought it denoted ‘sensibilities’ I guess.
Gretchin text me the other week said Anna was gonna go on this thread.
Dunno if she did.
baron von zubb
October 22, 2008 at 9:26 amhttp://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/Westbere%20Rd%20-%20Puppy%20Mansions%202/?action=view¤t=NearWestbereRd.jpg
Brilliant photo archives people. The whole period captured.
This one of Tony looking fab and Barons graffiti.
There you go Andus. Smack as creative therapy . .
Graham Burnett
October 22, 2008 at 11:28 pmIs that a ‘Nihilistic Nobody’/Mike Diboll pre-as-later-used-by-Conflict ‘Mortarhate’ logo stencil on the wall behind Tony, as used on the cover of Mike’s ‘Thanatos’ pamphlet??
baron von zubb
October 23, 2008 at 9:53 amYeah its small but i reckon youre right (Mike and me designed it)
Dibbol and Alcomers stenciled it, maybe accompanied by Ian ‘death cult’ .
My offering is ‘autonomy..’ etc.
The best one is ‘drink means love’
Classic.
Remember those ‘gloo means .. ‘?
All timeless.
andus
October 23, 2008 at 11:01 amOr as Rat Napalm used to put it. ‘Reality is just a crutch for those who can’t handle drink and drugs ‘
This thread is now as big as the rest of the web-site, Do you know it takes two days to read through all this, TWO DAYS !
That Penguin chap needs to calm down a bit.
I was watching this Anna Friel film last night ‘Me Without You’. She started jacking up smack, so I had to leave the room.
Nic
October 23, 2008 at 12:01 pmOf course, Rat had to relinquish the D & D when it affected his reality (though he has the odd Pop or two nowadays, inbetween the mammoth Ashtanga sessions)…
🙂
This thread looks a lot paler now that the Varukers thread is up and running…
😉
baron von zubb
October 23, 2008 at 5:58 pmThat film is a wicked film.
My nieces love it.
Its a great cautionary tail for young girls that tells it how it is.
I like this ‘Rat Napalm’. May he prosper
A, you really got a thing about needles. C’est la Vie.
Varukers a go go
andus
October 23, 2008 at 7:21 pmRat used to have a barrel of scrumpy next to him while he played the drums for Napalm, with a tube coming out of it and into his mouth so that he could carry on drinking whilst he was playing. I kid you not, ask Nic, its true.
andus
October 23, 2008 at 7:22 pmSorry, ‘Homebrew’ not scrumpy.
baron von zubb
October 23, 2008 at 7:52 pmMay he prosper & multiply
Sam your first post on this site was in Dec ’07 pre-dating this thread by months.
How D’you get to K Y P P then?
Jah Pork Pie
October 24, 2008 at 1:00 amDunno about Sam, but I came across this place by Googling “Heretics” and “Waterloo”, I seem to remember.
Just been doing some more of your book, mate, and came across something about the tube ride home after the Brixton Riots and the look on people’s faces on the old Bakerloo line: “Even if things didn’t change that much, the people involved would never be the same again.”
I make ya right fella, I’ve certainly thought that about all of us over the years while imbibing the odd small sweet sherry. I still have an annoying habit of stepping up my personality a notch or two when anyone tries to score a point, be it psychological (strangers), financial (bosses), social (acquaintances) or otherwise, off of me.
And that’s down to that very simple idea which we gleaned then: nobody is any better or worse than me – we’re all beautiful sovereign human beings. And it’s down to remembering those of us who didn’t make it – as my dad told me a couple of years before he died, “they live on through us”, which is something I think about a whole lot too.
Sam
October 24, 2008 at 1:21 amI think it was a link at the much more humdrum Talkpunk forum. I like the fact that talk of music here is centered on ideas and things that related to the scene. Talkpunk seems to be full of High Fidelity type lists of ‘Top 5 punk bassists’ and ‘Jam vs Pistols’. Depressing really. What it did have in common with this site is a lack of female voices. Why is this? Maybe women have a better ability to move on.
Jah Pork Pie
October 24, 2008 at 2:23 amPerhaps they just have more to do, what with being (statistically) academically better than us, having better jobs, and raising children, these days.
I like to remember my shit decisions, my good decisions, the good times and what they meant to me and the bad times likewise, and the good and bad advice I’ve had from friends over the years. As Goethe said, “He who cannot draw on three thousand years of history is living from hand to mouth.”
I think the idea is to move along, rather than move on. To grow rather than to change. Reconcile the past with the present where one can and if one can’t, then live with and be proud of the dichotomy rather than forgetting the past as a matter of policy. Moving on is about compartmentalising things, like submariners do when a bulkhead bursts. I try not to be under as much pressure as submariners these days – I didn’t find it good for me in the past.