The Apostles / Primal Chaos / Black Flag / The Heretics
Man about town, obscure punk enthusiast and general good guy, Chris Low late of Political Asylum, The Apostles, Oi Polloi, in the 1980’s and The Parkinsons in 1990’s, handed this tape to me on his birthday along with a load of others. I have uploaded this late because it is unfortunately been dubbed / copied onto tape by horrid mono means, i.e it only comes out of one speaker…bummer! Two other tapes Conflict at Brixton Ace 1982 supplied by Mark ‘Vegas’ Palmer starts off stereo then clicks into mono. Sadly to say Lugworm supplied a cassette tape recorded from Spaceward Studios of The Mobs LP recorded there. Not interested in The Mob LP as such but there is an alternative mix of ‘Stay’ which I was absolutely interested in. This track also plays on one speaker. Point of fact – nothing wrong with my cassette playback system!
Any how, I do not like putting up faulty or mono cassettes onto this site, but this has to be an exception because of the rarity value. The Apostles, Primal Chaos, Black Flag, and The Heretics all for the price of…well nothing. Not sure of the history of the tape, no doubt Chris will comment on it. Not sure of the line up, track listing or anything else. Again I hope Chris or his chum Nic will comment. On the B-Side of the tape is a Flux live gig and a Napalm Death practice. All I the info I got what was written on the tape itself, just band names basically. I actually have not heard this tape yet cos wifey needed me to do something so I just let it play…hope Bucks Fizz does not come on half way through the recordings!
Info from Nic:
The Apostles:
Pete The Plectrum (later formed part of ‘The Hunt’ on the first LP)
Some Men Are Born To Rule (the first song the group ever wrote)
Antichrist
? (This isn’t from this time period if I remember correctly – it features the drum machine: is it ‘The Island’, Chris?)
Solidaridad Proletaria (This is the original title at the time of recording: it was later changed to ‘A New World In Our Hearts’ and was re-recorded on both tape and vinyl)
Killing for Peace
Proletarian Autonomy (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Time Bomb
Stoke Newington 8 (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Primal Chaos – Rehearsal 1982:
Systems Slave (This isn’t part of their ‘Fighting for a Future’ rehearsal tape)
Black Flag – Rehearsal 1981:
The Master Race (Earliest version of this song that I heard)
Waiting for the All Clear (later recorded by The Apostles, but this version features Matt Mcleod on vocals
The Heretics – Rehearsal 1980:
No Character
Jake from Heretics on stage with Iggs of Crass 1979
The Heretics
baron von zubb
May 24, 2008 at 9:11 amI’m getting http 408 errors & losing comments.
Ain’t got the patience to write it out again.
Still its about how my folks ‘found out’ & all. I’ll do it later.
Suffice to say we really did fuck them around.
Val
May 24, 2008 at 9:30 amWell, you guys have been busy little bees, filling up the cyberspace since I last came by. Thanks for sharing in the public domain.
Here’s a link to a website documenting Dino’s Chaos UK days, amongst other stuff – yet another cross-over strand of the punk of the time.
http://www.mf-enterprizes.com/index.htm
also to jahpork – is that you in the background behind Lou in this photo?
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/Westbere%20Rd%20-%20Puppy%20Mansions%202/Louinbackbedroom.jpg
baron von zubb
May 24, 2008 at 9:38 amOk I try again
My folks found out ‘cos my bleedin GF Caz told ’em. She was anti all drugs so probably a good move.
So my dad concocted a couple of days work at some building site. Turned up & beat the bajesus outta me. I could do nothing, him an ex amateur boxer me having had some gear the day before, a bit shaky, not sick but just weak.
Dragged me back to their place, my mum in tears. I was outa there as soon as he left.
Next thing I hear from Evelyn that first the cops, then me folks have been looking for me. They somehow found her & Phils place, & she, lawd bless her, told them to fuck off. Still they made me ward of court. Still 17. Stayed Campbell Buildings about a week after that & realised that I could quite easily carry on my new found interest in gear whilst officially staying at that place. Campbell Buildings / tuinol / on the run / V gear & a few days a week at theirs? No contest. Had my dad in tears at one point, seemed like a victory at the time.
Poor bastards, What could they do?
Still I can sit around the table with them now & have a laugh, though not about those times.
Hopefully my ‘E’ gobbling nieces wont be as bigger twat as I was.
baron von zubb
May 24, 2008 at 9:54 amMy overiding memory of Campbell Buildings was after I’d left; getting a phone call from Robbo (?) telling me that Crow was dead, you Sam, were on the run ‘cos you’d twatted that copper, gone to ground in Brum I think.
Then going down to the place where they lay out bodies.
Man, Tess in complete bits, till this day i’ve never seen anyone cry like that, maybe the memory is still raw for me so exagerated, me just hugging her to hold her up. I’d never met her before.
Me & Bob & some others getting grouchy with the staff.
Tess freakin out at them that they’ed changed his appearance beyond recognition. Them trying to get stroppy with us & me having to be restrained from punchimg one of them out.
Seeing his body like that & us sorry lot, lost kids fighting a losing battle against an invisible enemy, is Campbell Buildings for me. It summed up ‘the horror’
For what its worth, it galvinised me towards ‘revolutionary’ politics.
I still reckon that his death pushed us lot further down the road. Dunno.
Sam
May 24, 2008 at 5:28 pmJake – Highlight your text, right click, copy and if you have to – paste it again. Shame to lose a whole post.
Scarecrow was a live fast – die young rock n’ roller. It was nobody else’s fault that he took a bunch of barbs and went to sleep on a roof in S. London. I remember some people using his death as an excuse for self pity (no one here btw) , which, in retrospect was the overriding emotion of Campbell Buildings. A couple of days grace, then a stampede to aquire the best of his enviable singles collection. There followed dramatic candlelit seances and weegee board sessions. Can’t see the connection to revolution here – it was Lord of the Flies. Being immortals at that age, it was still something that had happened to someone else and there was no downturn in the level of self abuse. It took another three years, hep b and c, 2 weeks on critical in hospital, one time turning blue in Amsterdam and a thousand dirty hits for me to realize – next time it’ll be you, idiot. You’ll be DEAD.
baron von zubb
May 24, 2008 at 9:52 pmSure.The connection was in my head.Another thing real or imaginary to be angry about.
Wank summed it up ‘he commited slow suicide’. Wise words from one so young.Thats what we were all doing.
Yeah forgot about all that weegee boared shit.
And absolutely, we were all self pitying.
BTW was up in the smoke today, went to see Banksy thing at Waterloo.So went to Lambeth North. Is that 20 storey office block on the Campbell Buildings site?Couldnt relay get me bearings
Cheers for comp advice gents.
Tried all these methods, somtimes it helped.
But the good news is it seems to have righted itself.
baron von zubb
May 24, 2008 at 10:16 pmBut hey,distant ‘raw’ memories only exist when you remember them.
Probably havent thought about or remembered any of this stuff for years. But when I do its interesting to watch it all flood out. The emotion is so distant that its only ever raw or real for an instant.
Still its a good instant.
Gonna read some other posts & go off at another tangent.
Erm, Banksy.How odd that an overtly ‘political’ graffiti artist is now an established part of the art world.
Chaos. Blimey another real band!
Good stuff though. Very humourous.
Sam
May 24, 2008 at 10:17 pmThe twenty story office block sounds right.
Off with the band to Missouri and Texas tomorrow for the next two weeks. I’ll try and check in on someone’s laptop if I can. Toodles.
baron von zubb
May 24, 2008 at 10:18 pmEnjoy the trip.
baron von zubb
May 24, 2008 at 10:27 pmChrist, that King Mob thing is wordy.
Apparantly they’ lauded riot’
Erm yeah whatever.
baron von zubb
May 25, 2008 at 9:32 pmSo Pork, or anyone the current little conundrum.
Global warming. Fact or fiction?
johng
May 26, 2008 at 11:04 am“Banksy.How odd that an overtly ‘political’ graffiti artist is now an established part of the art world.”
apparently,he is now a millionaire,his canvas’s auctioned off for tens of thousands of quids…………if he does have all that sort of money,wonder if he uses it for good.
global warming…..fact i reckon,whatever it is theres something not right,but i’m no scientist so what do i know?
johng
May 26, 2008 at 11:08 ami found this page on flickr that seems to be from the period youz guys were hanging around,maybe you recognise some of the squatters in the pics?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21882620@N00/
luggy
May 26, 2008 at 12:36 pmLots of old Puppy friends in there including Pip, Phil, Cory & Sue.
Nic
May 26, 2008 at 12:44 pmBob Short is in one of the images…
jahpork
May 26, 2008 at 12:46 pm@RichKid-> If you get the HTTP408 error after you’ve tried to post, hit the BACK button in your browser (takes you back to the page as it was before you posted, with your text in the window bit at the bottom). You can copy your text into the clipboard if you want to (highlight it all, then right-click and choose “copy”.
Next, hit the REFRESH button in your browser. Your post should appear, as if by magic, without you needing to post it again. I was getting the same problem – it’s something on the server side, not to do with your box.
Won’t have a chance to comment on any of the above till later (Bank Hol, pissing with rain, stuff to do).
jahpork
May 26, 2008 at 12:54 pm@JohnG-> “Banksy.How odd that an overtly ‘political’ graffiti artist is now an established part of the art world.”
For this, read: “The Clash”.
…and how appropriate that Paul Simenon is now selling his paintings for top dollar too. [see http://www.thomaswilliamsfineart.com/exhibitions/future/simonon/paintings/simonon_1.html%5D
And according to some blurb that I’ve read, one of the Thames paintings he’s done was painted form the penthouse flat of his mate Jeffrey Archer. Oh dear me.
jahpork
May 26, 2008 at 12:55 pm… That should have been:
http://www.thomaswilliamsfineart.com/exhibitions/future/simonon/paintings/simonon_1.html
Penguin • Post Author •
May 26, 2008 at 12:57 pmJez from Blood and Roses in a few of the photos. Has anyone got a flickr account? If so can that person get in touch with this person and get him to get in touch with us here at KYPP. I would like to use some of these photos if he is keen.
johng
May 26, 2008 at 2:02 pmi will drop them an email and ask em to get intouch for yeez
johng
May 26, 2008 at 10:19 pmok they love the idea so am sending you their contact email penguin cos they couldnt get the contact link on your site to work
this is the reply with email deleted (spammers etc)
Fuck me! Kill your pet puppy! Brougham Road! Bayston Road! Yes, same time, part of the same Hackney lot of punx! However, I tried clicking on the contact link as suggested and it won’t work – probably because I’ve managed to disable Microsoft Outlook on my own computer and have no idea how to reinstall it again (Doh!). So, if they would like to contact me at I shall tell them they are more than welcome to use whatever photos they like – but it would be nice to hear from the first! 🙂
johng
May 26, 2008 at 10:39 pmheres another reply i got………
Yes, that IS Bob from Blood and Roses! So, bloody hell, who
are you and where do you know him from? I never knew Bob
that well – I was a friend of Jez (bass player before he
died!) and Lisa (singer) though! 🙂 Stewart (if you ever
knew me, I was at a number of addresses – erm Huntingdon
Street, Cazenove Road, Morley House, Farleigh Road,
Kingsmead Estate, a road in Stoke Newington whose name
temporarily escapes me, an estate in Upper Clapton whose
name temporarily escapes me, Balls Pond Road, and some
others). By the way, I’ve uploaded a video to YouTube with
myself and some others on it from 1979 Huntingdon Street –
search for jellyfishinthebath or London Punk 1979 or here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IABnsIDer-0
jahpork
May 27, 2008 at 4:36 am@Val-> “also to jahpork – is that you in the background behind Lou in this photo?”
Nope, don’t think that was me, my hair was much more of an afro thang going on, at those sporadic times that I had much of it! Cool pic of Lou though – I remember her having her hair like that after she had the little fluffy short blonde spike cut.
She’s really cheekboney there too – she lost a lot of weight at Campbell Buildings, didn’t she? I guess we all did. The diet there wasn’t brilliant – I used to splurge me dole check on apple pies and After Eight mints (always had a taste for the very best in life, me 🙂 ), and then have sod all left for the week.
jahpork
May 27, 2008 at 12:46 pmCouple of things: does anyone remember anything much about that estate in Vauxhall that a few of us went to during/after Campbell Buildings? The nice new(ish) one that they were moving all of the residents out of because it was subsiding? Maisonettes (I think) with all the central heating and leccy left on. The floor I was on had a couple of Scots guys who used to go and work up the Dilly of a night because of their political convictions (“och, no, ah couldnae humiliate ma self by claiming the dole, ah’d rather go an’ sell ma dish up the Dilly”), plus Marilyn (mentioned above here) the transvestite Monroe clone. Other than that I can’t remember much about it other than the noise of the trains which I got used to after about a week and still miss of a night! Any more thoughts?
And, thinking of us all losing weight while squatting (as above), I remembered that there were a bunch of people who ended up at Campbell Buildings one night (think they were mates of Bob’s) when we were all very skint and very hungry. An American fella (I think) then asked if we all fancied going out for a bite to eat. We looked at him as though he was off his trolley (why would he think that we wouldn’t already have eaten if we’d have had the money?) “No”, he says, “it’s on me”. To which we replied the punk equivalent of “Does Judith Chalmers have a passport mate?”.
He then dragged us off to Soho and we all went upstairs in a Chinese place into what was one of the poshest restaurants I’d ever seen in my tender years. Plateful upon plateful of the finest food came up, which we devoured eagerly. Round upon round of lager was dealt out and put down with extreme prejudice (and it was the first time I ever drank sake too). When the time to pay the bill came, I was thinking that we were going to have to run the gauntlet of some cleaver-wielding chefs on the way out the bog window or something, but the American calmly produced his Dad’s gold Amex card (and this was in the days in the days when having a “gold card” meant “seriously rich) and gave the waiter a healthy tip as well as covering the lager and food bills. Ah, the stuff of which dreams are made! If he ever reads this, I’d just like to say a very big “GOOD WORK RICH OVERSEAS FELLA!” to him.
Phil
May 27, 2008 at 9:28 pmFunny you should mention this place, as ive just seen sue my sis for the first time in two years and she started to talk about those three trannys.
She said they really looked after her but one was a cleptomaniac, but only
for toothbrushes.
She said her toothbrushs were always going missing and when she looked in one of their handbags it was just full of toothbrushes.
I remember the reason why those flats were empty cos they were all sinking. You could put something on the floor and it would roll across the room.
jahpork
May 27, 2008 at 9:35 pmYeah, that subsidence was pretty alarming, even when sober! I don’t know what was worse, the fear of impending nuclear war or flooding, or the thought that you might wake up under 3 floors of masonry.
But the fact that the heating and leccy were left on more than made up for it after Campbell Buildings! Only thing was, the tenants had thoughtlessly taken their cooker with them when they left 🙂 I remember trying to heat up a tin of soup in a saucepan on the top of the immersion heater when I first moved in. I took the lagging off the top of the tank (it was REALLY hot!) and put the saucepan on it expecting a pot of hot nourishing pea and ham soup when I got back. Nah… after about ten hours it had warmed up to about the temperature of the average swimming pool. Downer!
Oh, and to get from Campbell Buildings down to the Vauxhall place you had to walk past “The Ministry Of Information”. The real proper government thing. Very worrying to a young chap full of anarchist paranoia!
Phil
May 28, 2008 at 12:26 pm@ pork, Yeah i remember that killer punch from Pip too.
It was used in his lab to bond animal tissue together and think it had the same effect on my head and guts.
You were lucky to get away that night cos we had this huge illegal eviction
where the pigs and council workers turned up about 4 in the morning started to arrest people on trumped up charges and proceeded to board up our flats!
Phil
May 28, 2008 at 12:43 pmWe had a tip off it was gonna happen and had a soliciter in one of the flats but he left about two.
The great thing was that on the court date these two female pigs came up to us and whispered in our ears that the police force was bullshit and they were gonna tell the truth in the dock!
Phil
May 28, 2008 at 12:51 pmYeah, so everyone got off and the other pigs got in big trouble. I missed the whole thing cos I was passed out in mine and Lisa’s flat with an old door wedged against the front door so it was impossible for them to get in.
They must of really wanted us out of campbell buildings to pull a stunt like that!
jahpork
May 28, 2008 at 1:47 pm@Phil-> The old bill from Kennington were always trying that stuff on, weren’t they? I remember one time me, Sam, Wank and Jake tried to open up a new place and we’d just got the cage off the door with the big “scouse key” jemmy when we saw and heard old bill coming up the stairs. We legged it up onto the roof but they’d sent a crew of them up the next stairwell.
They took us down to Kennington nick, and kept us in the cells for a few hours (usual insults and suspiciously gobbed-on looking food etc). Then after a few hours, the attitude suddenly changed. the sergeant opened up the cells and said “If you wouldn’t mind coming this way, please?” and marched us down the corridor. I thought that this was his way of snidily preparing us for a good hiding or something, but when we got to the Inspector’s office he ushered us in whereupon the inspector told us that there’d been an awful mistake, that the new Labour group on the council had a new policy on using unoccupied properties and that we were more than welcome to a nice cup of tea and some biscuits! They even offered us a lift back to the Buildings in a squad car! Nice!
One thing we DID notice one the way down the corridor to his office was that one of the cells was open and it was full up (I mean NO floor showing) with lovely tall dope plants. Now I leave it up to you to decide whether these were the result of a raid or whether Inspector Knacker was having a bit of DIY cultivation!
Does anyone remember the story about opening up a flat at CB and the walls being covered in blood? I’m never sure to this day whether it was urban myth or truth! there were loads of stories going round about the Richardson gang having used flats on the estate for torture and stuff – anyone ever found out if they were true?
jahpork
May 28, 2008 at 1:53 pm@Phil-> … and do you remember Leslie’s voracious sexual appetites? I seem to remember that you were very nearly a victim of her desires one evening (I think it was the weekend that the London Calling album was released!) and you had to insist long and vehemently that you were very happy as you were!
She then turned her gaze to me, and showed me her new vibrator!
Terrifying woman!
jahpork
May 28, 2008 at 2:10 pmDid anyone ever get to the bottom of the story of Crap getting life for that murder after falling/being thrown 4 storeys out of the window and onto the concrete? Seems from the comments above that people think he did it, but I’m sure he was denying it (not only to the old bill but to everyone else who went to see him) at the time. He reckoned he’d brought some guy back to the estate and as they got into the flat 2 blokes were waiting for him with a hammer. They smashed the other fella’s head into 2,000-odd fragments (according to the local paper) and then threw Crap out the window.
The reason I remember this quite so vividly was that I’d thrown a whitey bigstyle after eating about an eighth of blow and drinking 2 bottles of Mateus Rose (Ruth was very keen on it at the time). I thought my world was caving in and staggered round to St Thomas’s casualty. After I’d been there a few minutes, having explained to the nurse that I’d eaten some gear and thrown a whitey (she very kindly put me on a bed and took my blood pressure), old bill turned up and said “**** ******, I’m arresting you on suspicion of…”, to which I replied “It’s a fair cop, I’ve had a bit of gear”. He then continued … “Murder”. OUCH!
They dragged me off to Kennington, and took all my clothes for analysis. When they wanted the ‘personal’ samples, they called a police doctor. After the fluid samples, they wanted hair samples too. Except he didn’t have any of the regulation police-issue tweezers, so he improvised with a pair of electrician’s pliers they found in the back room. Having a bunch of your pubes yanked out by a bloke with his knee against your thigh saying “this is going to hurt you more than it hurts me” is not a good way to spend an evening!
The one thing that narks me more than anything else about the old bill, to this day, is that I’d asked them for a solicitor and to get my parents up there. Nothing happened. So I pushed the buzzer in the cell after 4 or 5 hours and asked the copper who opened the door what was going on. He replied to a shit-scared 16-year-old who’d been arrested for murder while out of his face “Let’s just say that if we still had hanging, your feet would be 3 foot off the ground by now.” What an arsehole. And he’s probably a deputy assistant commissioner by now.
Phil
May 28, 2008 at 5:47 pmPork. Hee, Yeah do remember that day. I remember Les having a queue of men going down the stairwell to the next landing ,and they would service her in return for tuinol.
I also remember her being covered in really bad scabies and the police burning all her clothes in the courtyard.