The Apostles / Primal Chaos / Black Flag / The Heretics
Man about town, obscure punk enthusiast and general good guy, Chris Low late of Political Asylum, The Apostles, Oi Polloi, in the 1980’s and The Parkinsons in 1990’s, handed this tape to me on his birthday along with a load of others. I have uploaded this late because it is unfortunately been dubbed / copied onto tape by horrid mono means, i.e it only comes out of one speaker…bummer! Two other tapes Conflict at Brixton Ace 1982 supplied by Mark ‘Vegas’ Palmer starts off stereo then clicks into mono. Sadly to say Lugworm supplied a cassette tape recorded from Spaceward Studios of The Mobs LP recorded there. Not interested in The Mob LP as such but there is an alternative mix of ‘Stay’ which I was absolutely interested in. This track also plays on one speaker. Point of fact – nothing wrong with my cassette playback system!
Any how, I do not like putting up faulty or mono cassettes onto this site, but this has to be an exception because of the rarity value. The Apostles, Primal Chaos, Black Flag, and The Heretics all for the price of…well nothing. Not sure of the history of the tape, no doubt Chris will comment on it. Not sure of the line up, track listing or anything else. Again I hope Chris or his chum Nic will comment. On the B-Side of the tape is a Flux live gig and a Napalm Death practice. All I the info I got what was written on the tape itself, just band names basically. I actually have not heard this tape yet cos wifey needed me to do something so I just let it play…hope Bucks Fizz does not come on half way through the recordings!
Info from Nic:
The Apostles:
Pete The Plectrum (later formed part of ‘The Hunt’ on the first LP)
Some Men Are Born To Rule (the first song the group ever wrote)
Antichrist
? (This isn’t from this time period if I remember correctly – it features the drum machine: is it ‘The Island’, Chris?)
Solidaridad Proletaria (This is the original title at the time of recording: it was later changed to ‘A New World In Our Hearts’ and was re-recorded on both tape and vinyl)
Killing for Peace
Proletarian Autonomy (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Time Bomb
Stoke Newington 8 (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Primal Chaos – Rehearsal 1982:
Systems Slave (This isn’t part of their ‘Fighting for a Future’ rehearsal tape)
Black Flag – Rehearsal 1981:
The Master Race (Earliest version of this song that I heard)
Waiting for the All Clear (later recorded by The Apostles, but this version features Matt Mcleod on vocals
The Heretics – Rehearsal 1980:
No Character
Jake from Heretics on stage with Iggs of Crass 1979
The Heretics
Sam
May 21, 2008 at 7:24 pmDunno which books. It was early nineties when they were published and I kept having people I knew coming up to me and saying “Did you used to have a mohican?” Si told me they were selling the photos as postcards in the eighties up west. The shame of it.
Rich Kid
May 21, 2008 at 7:25 pmOooh Catharsis.
She quite rightly put the pissing phone down in disgust.
But its like surviving the gas chambers. Only another yid kid can understand the guilt.
Grubby Smutta might be a name for the youtoob vid?
BTW any confessions to air??
I gotta gooooooo………….
Sam
May 21, 2008 at 7:33 pmI have several worst moments which still make me wince. One of them was at Campbell Buildings. There was this little local girl – she must have been about 8 or 9 years old and she took a shine to me and started following me around. It got a bit annoying after awhile but she was just being little. She made the mistake of coming into the squat once when I’d just shot up Tuinol and I shouted “Fuck off!” and squirted a syringe full of water at her. The needle was still on…it could have come off. Arrrghhhh! She ran out crying and never came back. There I’ve said it. You next.
Sam
May 21, 2008 at 7:38 pmA general ongoing guilty thing that chipped away at the moral fibre instilled so lovingly in us by our parents, was getting a crisp fiver for your birthday inside a lovingly written card from your gran. Are you with me?
Sam
May 21, 2008 at 7:42 pm“Buy yourself something nice!” she’d write. I took her at her word.
Sam
May 21, 2008 at 11:07 pmWas Tony Wilson a situationist? Or just a local news reporter who liked weird music.
I think Bernie Rhodes may have been part of this group. He was definitely a Marxist.
alistairliv
May 22, 2008 at 12:02 amFor a very lengthy discussion by the Wise brothers – ex-members of King Mob (briefly UK branch of Situationist International) about punk and stuff see
this http://www.revoltagainstplenty.com/archive/local/kingmob.html
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 1:49 am“Sitting in a squat with Scarecrow,
Can’t think of nothing to say,
Sniffing on a dried-up glue bag,
Waiting for the break of day,
3 for a quid keeps you up on your feet
But there’s nothing to do
But try to sleep”
(repeat ad nauseam)
Can’t remember the other verses.
Jerry Thing or Wank might though.
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 1:54 amChords were:
(VERSE) E, A, E, A, E, A, C, B
(CHORUS) A, B, C, D
A bridge or lead break, there was none.
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 2:00 am@Sam-> Not the Heisenberg thing, that’s about subatomic particles (electrons and downwards) being changed by the act of observation. The thing I was talking about was your comment about not being able to separate observer from observed: I think that’s more of a literary analysis theory.
It’s the quarks which are connected: spin one in a particular direction, and you can measure another one spinning a long distance away in “sympathy”. I guess, by definition, they can’t tell why though!
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 2:06 am@RichKid->The Spinnaker is a huge waste of money in a town which can’t afford it. But if it had been built properly (it wasn’t) and funded properly (it wasn’t), I’d have said it was a landmark piece of architecture. It DOES look beautiful lit up of a night when you’re coming back into Pompey on the ferry though, and it does reference the local history and culture very well.
Down there in Brighton you’re gonna be getting the Brighton Tower soon, eh? Looks like a 600-foot syringe to me! Is that culturally referential to the Brighton area? 😉
Sam
May 22, 2008 at 4:46 amShameless self-promotion I know but some classy shots of my band here:
http://shutterfalls.com/gallery/4955935_fhikK#296009521_YbKgz
Pork – There’s someone with a cat theory that I used to know but I can’t for the life of me remember the point of it. Could be something to do with parallel universes. Or maybe that’s just the Benylin talking.
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 11:15 am@Sam-> 2 cat theories I know of:
1. Schrodinger’s Cat: Put a cat in a box with a radioisotope attached to it. There’s a trigger which goes off if it’s hit by radiation. The trigger activates poison gas which kills the cat. The poison gas also goes off if the box is opened. At any given time, if you don’t open the box, the cat is in an indeterminate state- there’s no way of knowing if it’s alive or dead. The point being: When does a quantum system stop existing as a mixture of states and become one or the other?
2. Cats always fall on their feet if dropped from a high place, and if you’re unlucky enough to drop your breakfast toast it will always fall butter side down. The experiment is to strap toast, butter side up, to the back of your cat and chuck it off a tower block. It aims to prove which is the more powerful superstition 🙂
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 11:18 am@Sam-> Nice pics. You’re looking damn distinguished with age, mate. theyears have been kind!
Your guitarist looks unhealthily like Jonathan Ross to me though.
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 11:40 amThe Plague Dogs were originall called “No Publicity” (that was Jerry Thing’s thing).
He had the idea that he didn’t want anybody to know anything about him – not too handy for a singer really.
“No publicity,
Not for me,
Why don’t you leave,
Leave me be?
No Publicity!”
There then followed some drivel about “We’re on an anti-press campaign”.
FYI, “publicity” was pronounced “paaaarrrrrblic-uh-taaaaaaaaaayyyy”.
No publicity? Bollocks! I can’t speak for Thing, but I’m sure me and Wank would’ve sold quite close family members for the gift of being recognised by gurlz at gigz 😉 With his reputation as a laydeez man, I’m sure Thing would’ve done that too. Just another example of how we were behaving as we were “supposed” to behave, and going against our instincts.
Nic
May 22, 2008 at 4:25 pmYou played yourself, my friend, you played yourself…
🙂
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 4:48 pm…and as a result of getting No Publicity, I played WITH myself 🙁
jahpork
May 22, 2008 at 4:52 pm@Sam-> Did the photographer give you guys copies of the band photos? I noticed that you can’t save the pics from his website, but I’ve screen-dumped them so if you want, I can tart them up with Photoshop and pass them on if you like.
Sam
May 22, 2008 at 4:59 pmCheers Pork.
It’s true what you say about doing what we were supposed to but it seemed to make sense at the time. Anyone who wants to get on a stage and make a spectacle (witch!) of themselves has to have some kind of giant ego though. I think it was the golden age of the contrarian – possibly the dawning of the age of contrarious. More about being difficult than having any definite principles. The whole of New York wants to see The Pistols – let’s play Texas. I don’t remember Jerry being a ladies man. It was cool that he lived in Thornton Heath though. This was, from early childhood, a mythical place to me as it was on the other end of the (epic) 159 bus route, our end being West End Green. Oh to ride it again from end to end. Top deck, back seat, ten Bensons, an impatient driver at the helm and a nice paper ticket. Such things make life worthwhile.
Sam
May 22, 2008 at 5:03 pmThe photographer is sending us some copies. Thanks for the thought though. Buddy does look a bit like Wossi in some of those.
danmac
May 22, 2008 at 6:16 pmso are the dixie bee-liners more of a tuinal or an evo band then?
Sam
May 22, 2008 at 7:58 pmStella Artois all the way mate.
Rich Kid
May 22, 2008 at 9:52 pmPoor girl she thought you were gonna save her from something worse.
I reckon both those are about as twatty as each other.
Funny how the little things are somtimes important. All the crime & general badness just seems par for the course, eh?
Your gran? She knew mate.
Other high points? though not confessional.
Here’s one for Andy from the Apostles who still knows her.
Trying to get Caroline W to give me a blow job, or some sort of sex’ting whilst completely off me trolley, still peaking on STP.
Not a pretty site I can assure you.
To her credit she, I was gonna write, handled it well, but, she did deal with it well, poor love.
I never got to apologise. So pass that on Andy! If you are still out there in heretic land?
Erm, nickin’ Tommy Doyles missus off him while he was inside. Nice! That took years to get over.
Writing him (or anyone I imagine) a dear John was not fun. Still he’s spent loads more time inside & I’m still with his ex missus so I guess its all been right
But both of those are somehow kind of different to the our first to pangs of shame.
Rich Kid
May 22, 2008 at 10:04 pmCos my comps daft i only get to read posts after I post.
You lot are bloody hilarious.
Who would believe a man who took money for brown from his gran, more than once it seems, when he says his band dont do evo ?
Pork
whats the one that went
‘when we all go down kings rd
they wont leave us alone’?
Boys in blue ?
hook line was
‘there just a bunch of cunts’
Classic.
C’mon you middle agers lets have some more confessions.
Or else Sam & me will get reported to the fat, sorry spaceally challenged, controller.
Rich Kid
May 22, 2008 at 10:14 pmAnd how bout subway 4 or has that that already had an airing?
Dixie, I just noticed the post cardpost. D’you mean that all over the world there were people with post cards of The Heretics on their walls.
ha ha ha
And you had ‘mohican’ fans. No shame there bouyo
I’m gonna send all this to me nieces mohican mate. She also shares the same birthday as me, so must be cool. Shes gonna tell all her bacefook mates & wehey there we go.
Sam
May 22, 2008 at 10:17 pmNot sure if my gran knew. My mum and her side of the family were pretty innocent of such things and my mum, despite the odds, still has a wonderful quality of seeing the best in people. Another grandmother related incident was when we were in Amsterdam in 81. I’d ran out of money and knew my grandmother was coming over to visit museums with an elderly Jewish friend. I met them both in a restaurant, out of my head on smack and could hardly keep my head up. She insisted on buying me something to eat (‘you look SO thin darling!’) which just made me throw up. I think she must have twigged as no one normally needs to go to the bog every five minutes. The shame we endure for fifty quid.
There is some crime I feel really bad about. There was that little supermarket run by this Greek or Turkish bloke around the corner from 66a. We used to call him ‘Greasy Arnold’ and we’d nick from him every day. He was shit scared of us and eventually we gave up all pretence of hiding what we were doing. I remember him following me around the shop and I’d just face him and pocket two packets of cheese. Meanwhile Tony would be openly nicking fags. Who knows what his situation was? Recent immigrant trying to earn a living. Speaking as someone who got burgled 5 times in one place in Stoke Newington – it’s a horrible fucking feeling. It was probably junkies too. But karma’s something I do believe in. Maybe I’ve paid it all off by now.
Rich Kid
May 22, 2008 at 10:24 pmIts alright.Greasy Arnold is now one of the heads of the kurdish girl running mafias in London.
Sam
May 22, 2008 at 10:27 pmThinking about it I feel terrible about what I put my family through. Your mum found out about the smack and told mine. There was nothing they could do though. We were out of control and beyond all reasoning. My sister told me years after that my mum’d just sit in the kitchen and cry all day. I remember Wank admitting that his dad’s hair turned completely white within a year from worry. His dad did an intervention at Campbell Buildings too didn’t he? Drove up, grabbed him and bundled him into a van. There was zero knowledge about hard drugs at that time too. It was still a taboo subject.
Sam
May 22, 2008 at 10:33 pmI had a one night stand with this girl in Australia. Went into her bedroom and there were the Heretics pictures on her wall. Funny old world isn’t it?
jahpork
May 23, 2008 at 1:41 am@RichKid-> “Cos my comps daft i only get to read posts after I post.”
If you tick the box that says “Notify me of follow-up comments by email” at the bottom of the page, you’ll get an email every time anyone posts anything, within a few minutes.
If you’re still having trouble, press the “Refresh” button on your browser as soon as you load the page.
If that doesn’t work, then clear the Internet Cache in your browser.
Can’t remember the Plague Dogs’ tune about the boys in blue, so not much help there. But pick any 3 chords and stick the words “oppression” “hairspray” “gang” “unfair” “pills” “truncheon” “alienation” “running” “brutality” “miniskirts” “instigators” and “glue” in there somewhere and you wouldn’t be far wrong, I suspect!
I would think it’d be quite easy to produce a punk lyric generator using an online dictionary and a couple of yoghurt pots and string.
jahpork
May 23, 2008 at 1:47 am@Sam-> Wank’s parents were very nice people. I used to go stay over there in late ’78 – early ’79 and they’d make me really welcome. Genuine salt of the Earth. I think his dad was a shop steward at the Dagenham Ford plant, wasn’t he? Called Les (I remember that because his sister was called Lesley/Leslie too).
I had a look on Friends Reunited a couple of years ago for Wank, and found a Leslie Darrington living in Essex who was about the right age for his sister. She’s a judo champion, this one! Wrote to her but never got a reply so don’t know if it was his sister or not. Any thoughts on getting in touch with Wank at all, after his sojourn at his Moroccan Majesty’s pleasure?
Sam
May 23, 2008 at 3:22 amIf she’s a judo champion that’d be her. I remember her being PE teacher material. I think I remember her doing judo too as it was quite unusual for a girl at that time and her parents really encouraged it. Yeah, Wank’s parents were great. Very kind folks. I’d like to hear from Wank again and hear his thoughts on all of this.
baron von zubb
May 24, 2008 at 8:45 amnew machine
Nice..
His name was Ralph same as my dad. My memory is saying i’ve made this up but i dont think so..They also shared the same working class east end socialist roots.(though as we know my old man father of rich kid had gone a different way by the time we all came along). Lovely couple. He was a shop steward at Fords, Stalinist hence Wanks later incarnation as Wank Stalin.
Spent many a day there hearing the shouting matches between the generations. Wanks was particularly proud of his mums preference for The Carpenters. They all live in Spain now so Gretch said.
Spose they did the Dagenham to Costas route like a lot of folk
If his sister is on facebook someone could contact Stain that way?