The Apostles / Primal Chaos / Black Flag / The Heretics
Man about town, obscure punk enthusiast and general good guy, Chris Low late of Political Asylum, The Apostles, Oi Polloi, in the 1980’s and The Parkinsons in 1990’s, handed this tape to me on his birthday along with a load of others. I have uploaded this late because it is unfortunately been dubbed / copied onto tape by horrid mono means, i.e it only comes out of one speaker…bummer! Two other tapes Conflict at Brixton Ace 1982 supplied by Mark ‘Vegas’ Palmer starts off stereo then clicks into mono. Sadly to say Lugworm supplied a cassette tape recorded from Spaceward Studios of The Mobs LP recorded there. Not interested in The Mob LP as such but there is an alternative mix of ‘Stay’ which I was absolutely interested in. This track also plays on one speaker. Point of fact – nothing wrong with my cassette playback system!
Any how, I do not like putting up faulty or mono cassettes onto this site, but this has to be an exception because of the rarity value. The Apostles, Primal Chaos, Black Flag, and The Heretics all for the price of…well nothing. Not sure of the history of the tape, no doubt Chris will comment on it. Not sure of the line up, track listing or anything else. Again I hope Chris or his chum Nic will comment. On the B-Side of the tape is a Flux live gig and a Napalm Death practice. All I the info I got what was written on the tape itself, just band names basically. I actually have not heard this tape yet cos wifey needed me to do something so I just let it play…hope Bucks Fizz does not come on half way through the recordings!
Info from Nic:
The Apostles:
Pete The Plectrum (later formed part of ‘The Hunt’ on the first LP)
Some Men Are Born To Rule (the first song the group ever wrote)
Antichrist
? (This isn’t from this time period if I remember correctly – it features the drum machine: is it ‘The Island’, Chris?)
Solidaridad Proletaria (This is the original title at the time of recording: it was later changed to ‘A New World In Our Hearts’ and was re-recorded on both tape and vinyl)
Killing for Peace
Proletarian Autonomy (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Time Bomb
Stoke Newington 8 (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Primal Chaos – Rehearsal 1982:
Systems Slave (This isn’t part of their ‘Fighting for a Future’ rehearsal tape)
Black Flag – Rehearsal 1981:
The Master Race (Earliest version of this song that I heard)
Waiting for the All Clear (later recorded by The Apostles, but this version features Matt Mcleod on vocals
The Heretics – Rehearsal 1980:
No Character
Jake from Heretics on stage with Iggs of Crass 1979
The Heretics
Nic
February 29, 2008 at 6:33 pmThe Apostles:
Pete The Plectrum (later formed part of ‘The Hunt’ on the first LP)
Some Men Are Born To Rule (the first song the group ever wrote)
Antichrist
? (This isn’t from this time period if I remember correctly – it features the
drum machine: is it ‘The Island’, Chris?)
Solidaridad Proletaria (This is the original title at the time of recording: it
was later changed to ‘A New World In Our Hearts’
and was re-recorded on both tape and vinyl)
Killing for Peace
Proletarian Autonomy (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Time Bomb
Stoke Newington 8 (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Primal Chaos – Rehearsal 1982:
Systems Slave
(This isn’t part of their ‘Fighting for a Future’ rehearsal tape)
Black Flag – Rehearsal 1981:
The Master Race (Earliest version of this song that I heard)
Waiting for the All Clear (later recorded by The Apostles, but this version
features Matt Mcleod on vocals
The Heretics – Rehearsal 1980:
No Character
All we need now is the Libertarian Youth ‘Burn the Witch’ rehearsal recordings…hehe…
Love that lyric: “Animal lust – let’s go hunting! There’s a ‘Paki’ – kick the cunt in!”
Pure poetry – they don;t write ’em like that anymore…
😉
danmac
February 29, 2008 at 7:03 pmhey hey – cant download right now but this is black flag aka black cross aka carnage – a band i was in with andy martin, matt mcloud and angie zoff – we played three gigs i think – at a cinema in southend with the sinyx in 1980, with the apostles at their first gig at the basement youth club in covent garden where stu from charge opened that the apostles set was ‘absolute fucking garbage’ (and you know what – he was probably / almost certainly / in fact definitely right) and then a bit later on with lack of knowledge at a gig in deepest north london with a few different people – i remember the songs as being more interesting than your usual anarcho fare – punk but with some weirded out bits – matt angie and andy all wrote stuff – got some of the original lyric sheets knockin about somewhere. i think there’s a longer recording about from the lack of knowledge gig.
sniper from the heretics used to knock about andy’s when we were practising there with the apostles and i used to go to school with sams little bro – he used to take the piss out of our crass badges….love the tg pic – …no character – in my ford cortina…did anyone ever see em live?
as for the apostles couplet, i’m afraid i must *ahem* take responsibility – but also highlight that the lyric does need to be read within the context of the rest of the song, ironic distance, 14 years old, blah, blah, blah…however, i do think that the iambic pentameters scan rather well actually…
Penguin • Post Author •
February 29, 2008 at 7:14 pmLack Of Knowledge gig in Ponders End, poor side of Enfield maybe?
danmac
February 29, 2008 at 7:17 pmdats the one – were you there?
luggy
February 29, 2008 at 7:23 pmUsed to have a Black Flag tape that was better than anything The Apostles did. Thought it was of a rehearsal but may be wrong. They had some good songs like 1985. Would like to hear it again if anyone out there’s got it.
Matt’s still around but I don’t think he’s into nostalgia much.
danmac
February 29, 2008 at 7:25 pmhello luggy – hope all’s well…
think the only one is of ponders end – yeah i’d like to get my hands on it too…
anyways
have a good weekend y’all
Chris
February 29, 2008 at 7:57 pmNic, can’t listen to the tape the now as my speakers , but – yes, there was some more recent track that accidentally got recorded over a bit of Anti-Christ which is a Grade A wank as it was the best version of the song i’d ever heard. Grrrrrrrrr…..the scourge of technology.
Maybe Siii of The Heretics will pop up and enlighten us as to the title of the track?
I think at this juncture that photo from TG of them should be posted up just to show everyone just how ‘mental’ they looked 🙂 Would scan and send it to you Micky but my scanner is down too, perhaps someone else can oblige?
sean
February 29, 2008 at 8:22 pmI remember that pre production tape of the mob album as being far superior to the finished vinyl.But I thought that of the antisect LP so maybe I dreamed it…..maybe I dreamed it all……
john
February 29, 2008 at 9:00 pm“sniper from the heretics used to knock about andy’s”
i once read an article in a sunday newspaper about ‘tramp punks’ it featured photos of black luke and another guy called sniper,same one maybe?
Chris
February 29, 2008 at 9:47 pmwell, that would certainly be a more than apt description of their appearance, judging from the photos in Toxic Grafitti, so I imaging it could well have been!
Think Andy shared a flat with one of them. I doubt it was ever featured in ‘Ideal Home’.
john
February 29, 2008 at 10:17 pmwould be good to see the photo from tg again,would be great if anyone could scan some pages from it as mine is long lost,appreciate its a bit of fuckin time consuming task though!
wasnt there a small peice in it about the correct method to wipe ones arse after taking a shit?funny how certain things stick in the fading memory…
🙂
Nic
March 1, 2008 at 11:34 amNotice how Chris nearly ALWAYS seems to have fag on in these pics?
Nic
March 1, 2008 at 11:43 amI had a live tape of Black Flag / Black Cross / Carnage, Dan, back in the mists of time (1981-ish)…and some rehearsal recordings (that I got from Andy Martin)…
I remember articles on the band in a few fanzines – New Crimes (by Graham Burnett out in Southend) being a particular one…
I imagine that stuff has been consigned to history somewhere along the way…
Thinking of the lyrics: Yes, ironic distance indeed – but it’s quite funny out of context…
😉
The original lyrics to ‘The Master Race’ had some choice moments: “Haile Selassie? Highly suspicious!” and “This is a nation with a National Front, a government, a monarchy, a fucking cunt!” being two that always cracked us up back then…
Oh – and how could you forget “Child molesters, rapists too: they’ll and die…and so will you!”…Absolute genius…
Chris
March 3, 2008 at 1:14 amNotice how Chris nearly ALWAYS seems to have fag on in these pics?
haha…i WAS the Bryan Ferry of Anarcho-punk! 🙂
Nic
March 3, 2008 at 10:00 amI always remember you saying how much you admired Nazi architecture…
😉
Siii
March 3, 2008 at 12:37 pmHi Guys,
Siii from the Heretics here, cheers for uploading the tape, your collective memories from that period are incredible and put me to shame I’m afraid.
That was definately the Heretics, but I’m not sure what song it is. I can tell you that Sniper had been replaced on drums by Scarecrow by that stage and I suspect that I might well have left the band by then. I’ll drop Sam a line and see if he can confirm the title of the track/history of the tape it came from etc.
chris
March 3, 2008 at 4:00 pmand please see if you can look out any other recordings anyone might have of the band while you’re at it mate!
sean
March 4, 2008 at 11:57 amThe sniper of “tramp punks” fame used to visit luke often at leconfield rd off of petherton,early 84 when we shared a house there.He habitually wore a “I am not lord lucan” t shirt which he was hoping would stop him getting arrested on spurious grounds on a daily basis.It didnt work.
Later that year I was subject to an unofficial banning order from their turf (as they put it) by highbury police and shown a list of unsolved burgalaries that they had assigned to me.And they meant it.From then on it was stop and search,thrown out of new squat and roughed up daily.Exit stage left to stonehenge and return to camden town.I knew then how sniper felt.
But I dont know if he was in the band as our conversations were largely centered around sulphate,codeine linctus and glue.
Siii
March 5, 2008 at 1:11 pmChris,
I think I’ve got a couple of Heretics rehearsal tape tapes and old photos of the band somewhere if they would be of any interest? I suspect the quality is a bit ropey though.
I haven’t got a clue how you do this uploading malarky, so if I can find them, maybe I could forward them on to you to work your interweb magic?
Sean, last known sighting of “our” Sniper was from the early-mid 80’s in Hackney, so probably the same fella.
chris
March 5, 2008 at 3:35 pmyes sir!! that would be brilliant, please email me again and ill send you my address. glorious stuff!
tonyb
April 16, 2008 at 12:19 pmLack Of Knowledge / Apostles.
Ponders End Youth Club.
Think it was on xmas eve 81.
Ponders End as featured on Thames News as one of the worst council estates in UK.HaHa. Just seemed normal to us.
Apostles were great.
Rich Kid
April 25, 2008 at 12:28 pmYup all those Chickens come home to roost.
Its a recording of ‘No Character ‘ Written by me!!
the singer.Sam always wrote our songs except for this one.
recorded in Sams bedroom.Dunno how it got out of there.
Scarecrow (ex Chaos Uk or UK Chaos or whatever)was on drums.Although my ‘singing was shite,’Sniper’ Phil, could not drum in any way at all..
Sii I think you were on bass but it might have been ‘wankstain’ Mark Darrington.I just cant remember.
How excellent there is a copy.I want one for me nieces.
How not so excellent that the article on us on ‘Nihilism on the prowl’ site has me tagged as ‘ a rich kid from Hampstead slumming it’
Pretty funny though.
Hello to any one who knew me from that time.
Rich Kid
April 25, 2008 at 12:50 pmJust listenend to it.Fucking hell thats awful.
I knew what it was ‘cos some random punk turned up with it once, to our gaff in NW6, a few years later. He seemed to think it was ‘an underground classic’.To this day i have no idea how it got out of Sams bedroom.I remember now the ‘line up’
It was recorded on a pissing single deck cassette recorder…
Crow had only 2 drums,one was from Sams drum major club days.And maybe a high hat.
Theres no bassist at all.
Sii had left but we hadnt got anyone else.My singing is truly rubbish. Sams, actually even then, an ok guitarist.
Crow the only one with any talent is holding it all together.Dont wanna sound nostalgic or any thing but somtimes I still miss him…Must be something to do with carrying on that life that killed him but surviving it, eh. blah blah
Can I get a copy of it or is it now on my hard drive.
My nieces will find it hilarious.
This site run by Tony D?
Hello mate good to see you’re still putting it out there.
Mr Simon.Hello mate. If u got some pics. I’d be interested.
My mail is ‘baronvonzubb@hotmail.com’
Cheers for all your efforts on this site
J
Rich Kid
April 25, 2008 at 1:03 pmMe again..
Sos to be boring .
But who were the Apostles? And why the fuck were they writing songs about ‘autonomia opereia’.
Can’t remember any punks in the London Autonomists (the Monday Group/went on to be Class war) ‘cept me & ‘wank’.
Once it all started getting serious in ’80 & ’81, my memory is that punks generally preffered to write rather than riot..
What i cant believe is that we all lived through that period of ‘street uprisings’ so it must have happened.But do they ever mention it when they do retrospectives on the box or in the papers about the ’80’s? .Do they fuck.Brixton & Winston Silcott get a fleeeting mention but the rest, its erased from history.
Bye bye
Graham Burnett
April 25, 2008 at 4:55 pmRe the Black Flag/carnage gig at ‘a cinema in Southend with the Sinyx’ – actually it was Focus Youth Centre next to Southend Victoria Station, venue of many a classic punk gig back in the day, including The Erattics, and local lads Sinyx, Kronstadt Uprising and their many antecedents (Including Slash Wildly and the Cut throats who are mentioned in Alex Ogg’s Punk book, The Icons, The Nihilsist Corps, Stripey Zebras, 86 Mix (who were more a Fall/PiL/arty type band who never forgave me for getting them a gig at the old Wapping Anarchy Centre where they went down like a lead balloon with the open minded anarcho crowd because they were ‘different’…) and many others… I remember the Black Flag gig, it was in the main theatre part of the building (hence the understandable confusuion with ‘a cinema’), which was normally reserved for ‘proper’ gigs and productions, mostly the bands played on a little stage in the main social area, there would be a bout 30 or 40 punks and the like who’d come to see the band, whilst the usual youth club crew would continue their games of pool oblivious to the racket emanating from the stage…
Tony Puppy
April 25, 2008 at 9:13 pmHi Rich Kid, yes I’m Tony D. and I’m running a site like this in the 21st Century!
Mainly for the reasons you put in your post at 1.03pm – we are erased from history.
But we live….and the time will live on.
Rich Kid
April 26, 2008 at 10:57 amMy poor nephew, hes so bemused, & confused.And amused that hes got a punk rocker uncle.His nick name for me is ‘unlegee’.Now ‘punclegee’
Simon if u got other recordings i’d be interested in getting a copy.
And cleaning them up somehow.
Particularly ‘what did I do’ & ‘victim’
Both written by Sam.’What did I do’ is actually a brilliant punk ballad.If we’d stayed together it may have become our ‘sig’ tune.Showed Sams potential.
Sii when you left ,the band inmploded.Why did you do it?
Cheers Tony.Dunno if u remember me at all but good on yer.And hello to your sis too
J
Penguin • Post Author •
April 26, 2008 at 11:42 amOK, I have stuck the photo of Jake (Rich Kid) with Iggs of Crass, and a picture of The Heretics up with this post, if you care to look at it now above…
I would love to upload more stuff. Photos and tapes if anyone has them at hand…Si if you have already contacted Chris on this matter then I can get them off him easily enough and then return.
Graham Burnett
April 26, 2008 at 8:43 pmhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Apostles.jpg
And heres a pic of The Apostles when they played in Southend at the Spread eagle pub in Victoria Avenue, about 100 yards up the road from the New Crimes HQ/my house, his was taken on 5th December 1981, and isn’t that Dan at the foreground of the photo? other bands that played that night were Stripey Zebras, 86 Mix, What Is Oil? and I think The Get, can’t remeber who else?? I do remember that DIY cassette mogul Dean Poole (later of Living Legends and Class War) came all the way from Penarth in wales to attend this gig…
When we booked the gig the landlord of the Spread Eagle, which was our local at the time (and still was up until about 2 years ago…) asked what sort of ‘concert’ we were putting on, we told him that it was ‘just a few local pop groups’ the night of the gig he rang me at home in a state of panic when all the crusty anarcho-squat crew who’d come down with The Apostles were camped out on the pavement outside the pub…
But by the end of the evening he was thoroughly enjoying himself and actually dancing to the Apostles IIRC – which probabaly upset them no end!!! He then got his mate up and they did some kind of R’n’B drums and vocals duet… surreal! but punk as funk when you think about it…
Just listening to the download right now and having flashbacks to the old days of roneo-ing New Crimes, turning the handle til 3 in the morning and pissing off my mum by getting ink all over the dining room carpet…
Rich Kid
April 27, 2008 at 10:10 amG’day.
The deserved fame & notoriouty that eluded me thus far has arrived….
Youre a bunch of stars for still keeping on.
All the other bands on the tape were real bands..They gigged & recorded things.
Us , as I ve been informed by Chris(same one as above I know not) from of the article in ‘nihilism on the prowl’ ,only ever gigged once.(and he remembers where!!)This maybe true certainly no more than 3 times..I have vague memories of other gigs but possably with ‘The Shit’,the previous effort.
I do remember gorgeous Liz(now she WAS the daughter of some minor gentry) greeting me when we turned up in some squat in Kennington with ‘Oi, youre Mr I hate flowers’.
How & where she managed to
A) hear the song & B) remember it, was & is a mystery to me.
Penguin,cheers for your efforts.How you manged to suss out which pic is of me & ‘Iggs’ I dunno.Its the right pic, I remember it, but dunno who anyone is in it..
Seeing as this may be a place for info, a question.
Does anyone know what happened to Aussie Bob, & Ruth & Lisa.And Mitch?I know Bob & Lisa were in a band, made a single, were on peelie etc but after that ? And Ruth? And Mitch(the girl)?Saw her at the BGG 10 years ago but I never got to find her & rap.
Any ideas?
cheers agian
j
Rich Kid
April 27, 2008 at 10:26 amSos another double post…
Dammac you went to school with Sams little bruvva?
I cant even remember he had a little bruvva.His big one was a reggae/soul DJ though.
On reading all the posts now, its clear you all kind of still know each other.Like Sii knows Chris, (the same as who ive been emailing i realise) mails Sam in the US. Chris mentioned ‘womble’ & ‘Thing’ & & others who i doidnt know& someone knew Phil(sniper)and you all …Blimey
So any news on the above Q would be much appreciated
Eeh Oop
Penguin • Post Author •
April 27, 2008 at 11:45 amRich bloke, Bob is well and contacts this site every now and again. Some of his texts are on this site if you search for Bob Short. He has a myspace site
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=126146745
which he can be contacted on.
Ruth left a comment a little while ago on the Hagar The Womb Morterhate Records 1983 (search for this using search function top right). Keep that post alive by commenting on it, maybe she will see it and answer back. The Mitch I knew was not a girl, but a stocky bloke, used to be in Flack and Hagar, and since those days is a fixture of doing the sound at a load of London based gigs. Saw him about a year ago.
It must be said that myself, Tony D and Alistair have access to all emails addresses on the comments posted, but would not like to make these public to all and sundry. Hope you understand this. Many people commenting on this site you will probably know…hope you have not scared off members of your family with the sound of those tracks above!
alistairliv
April 27, 2008 at 12:52 pmI think the Ruth meant is not Hagar Ruth but Ruth-less Ruth – Pinki used to mention her when talking about Campbell Buildings. She may be mentioned in Bob’s writings.
Female Mitch – is there a photo of her in ‘Puppies and their friends’? Will have a look.
Lisa Kirby (Blood and Roses Lisa)… lost touch with her after I left London. Which is eleven years ago now. She was married to Ralph _____ who produced “You’re unbelievable” by EMF.