The Apostles & The Mob – London Musicians Collective – January 1983 / The Cravats – Southern Studio original mixes – 1981 / Augustus Pablo – Atra Records – 1980 / Zos Kia – All The Madmen Records – 1984 / The Mob – Amsterdam – June 1979 / The Turdburglers – 1981 / 1982

The Apostles at L.M.C

The Mob at L.M.C

First there was a cassette.

The Apostles and The Mob recorded on a cassette recorder from the audience.

The cassette was available in 1983 via Larry Peterson’s Cause For Concern cassette tape label. This cassette tape label generally veered towards industrial experimental music, more so than punk or anarcho punk. Throbbing Gristle, Nocturnal Emissions and others.

This was an era when Andee Martian had an interest in the kind of music Larry Peterson was involved with releasing.

They both shared an appreciation of Whitehouse as well.

Andee Martian was helping to organise bi-monthly concerts at the L.M.C in Camden. Andee Martian recalls:

“The LMC, Camden, London NWI: September 1982 – February 1983

Organized by The Apostles and East London Workers Against Racism, this was more an alternative venue than a club. The organization here was minimal and suffered from a lack of PA equipment, an abundance of people who shouldn’t really have existed in a society that had long ago discovered penicillin and a financial situation strictly from Mickey Mouse. The bands who played here were, though, committed and varied: The Replaceable Headz, The Mob, Four Minute Warning, Zounds, Rack, Cold War, Twelve Cubic Feet, The Apostles, Flux Of Pink Indians, The Good Missionaries, Youth In Asia, Fallout, New 7th Music and a variety of poets and performance artists plus many other punk bands. Music events were the only things on offer here as bills had to be paid and the hall had to be hired. People have a tendency not to rush out to Camden from Gravesend and pay £1.50 to debate the politics of determinism versus free will… a pity really”.

Andee organised a concert with his band, The Apostles, and The Mob.

J.C who was the Treasurer of the Brougham Road Housing Co-Operative, where members of The Mob and Zounds were, or had been housed, also had a rickety P.A for hire.

On this night, J.C turned down Andee’s vocals during the song ‘Pigs For Slaughter’ which was towards the end of The Apostles set. Whether this was pressure from some audience members, or a decision by J.C himself I have no clue. A line was drawn in the sand and the P.A was on the ‘side’ of pacifism and not direct action. Whatever the reason, The Apostles cut short their set, and The Mob took over the stage.

This censorship issue was worthy enough in the minds of Andee and Dave Fanning (the bassist, sometime writer, artist and vocalist) that a small paragraph about it ended up on the cover of the first 7″ single from The Apostles released in 1983 credited to Dave.

It read as a rant against fake anarchists, pacifists and petty minded P.A operators… and so forth. Interestingly there was also a rant about Tony D (again credited to Dave), and the threat of violence towards him, for ‘not paying Little A printers for the costs of publishing KYPP 6 (or 5?)’. The bill to Little A printers was settled prior to The Apostles first 7″ single being available, so that paragraph on the sleeve, due to the delay was somewhat out of date! Thankfully Tony D was relieved to have kept all of his fingers, a main bullet point of the threat on the record sleeve!

Larry Peterson went to work on duplicating his original recording of the concert onto cassettes with a sleeve that folk could purchase by mail order or at concerts. Tellingly the cassette sleeve states: Pacifist PA Promotions!

The audio is extremely rough, but the listener can get a idea of the concert.

Secondly there was an album.

1984 and Larry Peterson released a Throbbing Gristle album on vinyl, in 1985 (or 1986?), he released his second vinyl for the Cause For Concern label.

This second vinyl released was a better sounding version of that old cassette originally released in 1983, due to the mastering needed for the metal stampers. I think there were 900 copies manufactured.

I knew J.C during the mid 1980’s while he was living at Brougham Road, and he had shrugged his shoulders, and sniggered slightly while discussing the L.M.C incident.

Andee I knew at this point as well, another Brougham Road resident at this point. I cannot remember discussing this issue with him, but I might have.

Larry Peterson I had never met, but when I did, and it was just the once, he mentioned that J.C had ‘loaned’ him a bus to go to Europe (Spain?) picking fruit one summer, and the bus ended up breaking down. Larry then left it on the roadside and eventually found an alternative route back when he needed to return to London!

I understood that J.C was not best pleased!

The audio for this YouTube post has been ripped off of my vinyl version, as the quality is better, but I have scanned in the original cassette sleeve, and the original cassette. Obviously I have also added the sleeve, ahem, design…

For what it’s worth!

Side 1

Side 2

The Cravats fourth release for the Small Wonder record label, was the result of the band hooking up with Penny Rimbaud, the drummer with Crass and was recorded at Southern Studios in Wood Green, North London…

Penny managed to capture a darker sound for the band culminating in the tracks.’You’re Driving Me / I Am The Dreg’ which became The Cravats fourth attempt to tentatively stick its head above the parapet.

Although the eventual 7″ single, didn’t fare very well on release in March 1981, it was the start of a more cohesive sound for the band that seemed to be finding it’s feet in the studio.

These versions of ‘Dregs’ and ‘You’re Driving Me’ are on a cassette tape from Southern Studios labelled ‘Original Mixes’ and are different to the official 7″ single release.

The photographs of the actual recording session at Southern Studios that are featured in the middle of this YouTube post are from the collection of The Cravats.

Side 1

Side 2

One brilliant compilation album focusing on the Santic record label. Horace Andy’s, ‘Children Of Israel’ and ‘Problems’ are worth the price of admission by themselves. One side concentrated ‘Pablo’, second side, various artists.

Snippet of an interview with Leonard ‘Santic’ Chin:

When I came in the business men like Bunny Lee and them were much older people than me, that’s what I thought, he was a bigger man in the business. I was just a youth getting in there. It’s not really about everybody liking you but, with most of them, I was alright… they’d let me feel like I belonged. Maybe, as a youth, I was likeable. At the time I was the youngest producer coming out of Jamaica after Gussie Clarke. The other day Bunny was saying to me “Santic you’re a legend, you know!” and I said “Come on Bunny! What are you talking about?” He said “Within that short space of time you were producing records in Jamaica you produced more hits than most of us! And you never had no big company like Dynamics behind you to help you either. One youth man making hit after hit! ‘Pablo In Dub’, ‘Children Of Israel’, ‘Lovers Mood’, ‘Problems’ ‘Late Hour’ with I Roy, ‘I’m A Free Man’ with Freddie McKay…”

Before even ‘Pablo In Dub’ I was recording a deejay named Jah Mojo. The first track I did with him was a tune named ‘Nitty Gritty’ and Bongo Herman was playing the drums. After that one I did a next tune with him named ‘Yankee Conkee’ and then I made this rhythm that I later used for ‘Pablo In Dub’, ‘Children Of Israel’ and ‘Down Santic Way’. Jah Mojo did a thing on it called ‘Jacamma Rock’ and it sold about a thousand and fifty copies. The rhythm was good… Aston ‘Family Man’ Barrett played the bass on it and his brother Carlton played the drums and there was a guy named ‘Snapping’ who played the piano…

Like I said when I went in the studio I was Sixteen. So I was just working with those guys, but I didn’t know their history… as the years went by I got to understand more and, being in the business, I learnt more and more. A lot of people my age in Jamaica wouldn’t know those things so that’s how I get to know. Anyway, he played the piano. The organ player was Ossie Hibbert. I did a mix for the Jah Mojo record and everybody loved the rhythm. One time Leroy Sibbles and some other people were standing up in Randy’s and Leroy said “This rhythm a bad! It’s like the bass carry the melody by itself” and then I decided to do a next mix of it.Eventually… things just happen sometimes when they’re supposed to happen.

I went up to Randy’s and mixed the tune… and for some reason Pablo just walked into the studio that evening and said “That rhythm there sound good!” So I said “Blow a thing on it now then, man!” I was into Pablo from ‘Java’ and was always asking him to do a tune for me and he used to smile and say I couldn’t afford to pay him and all those things there. He said “You’ll have to ask my manager Paul” and his manager said “Alright… do you have any weed?” My brethren, Carl Prehay, was there and he said “Yeah man… we have the boom!” And we bought a few Red Stripe beers, took the next two hours in the studio, set up the tape and he just blew through the tune a couple of times. The next one was a take and I said “This is ‘Pablo In Dub'”.

After ‘Pablo In Dub’ got on the Top Five it went to Number One for a week and then dropped back to Number Two and I asked Horace Andy if he could sing a tune on it for me. He loved the rhythm from time too… the Pablo version was so popular! Horace just came in the studio… it was a Friday morning. The day before I’d got Leroy Sibbles to put in the rhythm guitar because ‘Pablo In Dub’ never had a rhythm guitar in it. So it was Leroy Sibbles who actually chopped the rhythm guitar in it and then, the following day, I got Horace to sing on the rhythm. We played the rhythm track and Horace ad libbed and said “Errol!’ Rewind back the tape there” and he sang ‘Children of Israel…’ and went through it once, wrote some more lyrics, went through it again and half way through he said “Now run the tape Errol. And take it too!” We did ‘Children Of Israel’ and ‘Problems’ both at the same time. We didn’t spend two hours to do all that! The lyrics were written and voiced at that moment. There and then.

The ultimate Santic Records compilation released by Pressure Sounds is well worth getting hold of; HERE Please do so… All the songs are pure magic.

The original KYPP post to read and download the tracks HERE

Zos Kia ‘Rape / Thank You’.

Originally released as a 7″ single on the All The Madmen record label in 1984. Alistair, who was running All The Madmen Records throughout that year, was for several years, also involved with the Kill Your Pet Puppy fanzine. That fanzine’s last issue (number six) was published in the Autumn of 1983.

Alistair had also created his own fanzine during 1983, Encyclopedia Of Ecstasy, a fanzine that lasted for three issues.

All The Madmen Records released many important records throughout, inspiring to many, including myself.

This record, specifically the song ‘Rape’, was by far the most difficult to listen to, both musically and lyrically.

A very brave move from Alistair to have backed this project. And, it must be added, a very brave testament to Min, sharing this extremely harrowing experience to those that heard the song.

In-between The Mob, Flowers In The Dustbin, The Astronauts, Blyth Power and Thatcher On Acid, this record by Zos Kia was out there on their own.


Standing alone as an industrial record from an industrial band within the All The Madmen roster, rather than guitar based records from guitar based bands.

Zos Kia still holds that niche position in the All The Madmen catalogue.

The release of the Clair Obscur album ‘The Pilgrims Progress’ in 1986, came close to siding with Zos Kia. But never quite close enough.

Zos Kia / Thank You / Black Action / The Absolute

The re-release was organised by the new man in charge of All The Madmen Records from 1985, Rob Challice.

Due to the many letters received via Wot Distribution inquiring about purchasing the 7″ single which had been out of circulation since the first pressing of the record, Rob, in collaboration with John Gosling, decided on a re-release.

In 1986, the original two tracks from the 7″ single, were placed onto a 12″ extended play single with two new unreleased Zos Kia tracks that were recorded in 1985 added. This 12″ extended play single quickly sold out, and as far as I remember was never re-pressed. Making both formats of this record collectors items!

Min, a Kill Your Pet Puppy Collective member was the vocalist for Zos Kia on ‘Rape’, a true account of her feelings during an attack that she had suffered in Australia.

An extremely harrowing and brave performance from Min on this track, not easy listening whatsoever.

John Gosling is on the vocal duties for ‘Thank You’ and ‘Black Action’.

Alex Ferguson and Genesis P-Orridge, both Psychic TV members at that time were involved in the recording and the engineering of the two tracks, ‘Rape’ and ‘Thank You’, that were originally released on the 7″ single in 1984.

John Gosling also begun to work within the Temple Of Psychic Youth organisation, and from 1984 to 1986, performing live and in the studio with Psychic TV.

Zos Kia released a couple more 12″ singles on Psychic TV’s Temple Records, one was released in 1985 and one in 1987.

Thank you to Min, for supplying me with the photographs of Zos Kia performing at the Berlin Atonal Festival in 1984, that I have used for this YouTube post.

All the other bits are from my collection.

The cassette of Zos Kia at the Berlin Atonal festival is below.

The Mob Amsterdam 1979

A mixing desk cassette tape of a performance by The Mob and a good example of the set list at that time in 1979.

The mini European tour that this gig was included on, was with Here And Now and a bus load of other support acts, including Zounds.

I have a mixing desk cassette tape of The Mob in Arnhem (also in Holland) recorded on the 2nd June 1979 and that may be listened to HERE 

The songs performed at this gig in Amsterdam were written way before the ‘peace punk’ tag that The Mob carried around until the end of 1983, and that the band are better known for.

These songs will surprise many listeners. Some of these songs did end up being recorded cheaply and placed onto various compilation cassette tapes, generally released on Jonathan Barnett’s ‘Weird Tales’ cassette imprint. Jonathan Barnett was a one time roadie for Here And Now, Zounds and several other ‘free festival’ bands of that era. He was also in charge of Genius Records, a record label that were responsible (in part) for releasing the debut Astronauts album ‘Peter Pan Hits The Suburbs’.

Many of the songs performed are raw and basic, although a few of the songs in the early set, did make it through until the end of 1983. Namely ‘What’s Going On?’, ‘Youth’, and ‘The Mirror Breaks’. Of course those songs are still included in The Mob’s set in the 2000’s.

Most songs performed at this gig, and throughout this era, were jettisoned in favour of the newer songs that were being written, eventually ending up on the album, ‘Let The Tribe Increase’ and of course’ No Doves Fly Here’.

Grant Showbiz, from Street Level studios, can be heard on the mixing desk mic. Mark, an able guitarist, suffering from several guitar string breakages on the night, a very angry bassist, and one shit hot drummer in Graham Fallows, who also sings a few of the tracks.

There are two cover versions performed by The Mob during this gig in Amsterdam.

‘It’s A Rip Off’ by T Rex and ‘Louie Louie’ originally by the Kingsmen of course.

Enjoy the audio on this YouTube post, but, be wary, if you are hoping for the songs that later ended up on the ‘Let The Tribe Increase’ album, then prepare to be disappointed!

Images are from the collections of:

Mark Mob
Andy Tuck
Nick Godwin
Joanne Childs

Thanks to those folk.

There is a cassette tape fault on this audio around the seventeen minute mark for ten seconds or so.

Bayston Road Rehearsal

Wapping Autonomy Centre 1

Wapping Autonomy Centre 2

The only time that I read about The Turdburglars was a page or two in Kill Your Puppy fanzine issue 5 in 1982. I did not know the band, or what the band sounded like, or for that matter, the persons involved in the band.

The only piece of information I ever received first hand on The Turdburglars was from Andee Martian of The Apostles in the mid 1980’s, who spoke of an incident in which he described a face off between the band and himself. He claimed that The Turdburglars had written some unflattering songs about The Apostles, directed at himself specifically. The people that told Andee Martian this information were either incorrect themselves, or on a wind up. Andee went along to the band’s squat to confront. Andee supposedly had a rant and a push around and left the squat red faced when he realised that the claims that he was told were incorrect in the first place*.

* Actually Mick Lugworm has confirmed that The Turdburglars did have a song (not on this cassette tape) about Andee Martian; “Andee kept threatening to throw people down the stairs so I wanted to cover ‘Help me Mummy’ by Rubella Ballet as ‘Help Me Andee – Help Me Down The Stairs'”.

The Turdburglars did not release any records but these recordings do exist, for better or worse. Some might argue the latter! The material on this cassette contain a practise session at the squat in Bayston Road, Stoke Newington. After that there is a live performance at the Wapping Autonomy Centre from December 1981. All recorded in glorious lo-fi.

The Turdburgars were made up of Mick Lugworm, Mark Ripper, Richard Scarecrow, and a Boiled Egg, Duncan Jack. All of whom were orbiting around that whole North London squatting scene of that time in the early 1980’s, that bands like The Apostles, The Mob and Blood And Roses existed within. All of those worlds colliding in imperfect harmony with the Kill Your Pet Puppy Collective, passing Wapping Autonomy Centre on Westbourne Park Centro Ibrico on their outer-worldly orbital route. Drugs might have been taken, to keep the tribulations of the world outside the shabby squat doors and broken windows at bay.

Indebted to Richard Scarecrow for supplying the audio for this YouTube post.

Both of the written out sheets, which were the base for The Turdburglars piece in Kill Your Pet Puppy issue 5 are from Tony D’s collection. Followed by the actual pages of that Kill Your Pet Puppy fanzine.

Following those printed images there are dozens of period photographs in no particular order, of places and people that would have been circling The Turdburglers around that time in the early 1980’s.

These photographs are from the collections of:

Mick Lugworm
Jon From Bromley
Tony D
Tod Hanson
Richard Scarecrow
Martin Black

Thanks to those kindly folk.

1 comment
  1. andus
    November 12, 2020 at 9:42 pm

    Is that J.C character still covered in oil

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