The Chris Low Obscure Punk Tape Post…

The Apostles / Primal Chaos / Black Flag / The Heretics

Man about town, obscure punk enthusiast and general good guy, Chris Low late of Political Asylum, The Apostles, Oi Polloi, in the 1980’s and The Parkinsons in 1990’s, handed this tape to me on his birthday along with a load of others. I have uploaded this late because it is unfortunately been dubbed / copied onto tape by horrid mono means, i.e it only comes out of one speaker…bummer! Two other tapes Conflict at Brixton Ace 1982 supplied by Mark ‘Vegas’ Palmer starts off stereo then clicks into mono. Sadly to say Lugworm supplied a cassette tape recorded from Spaceward Studios of The Mobs LP recorded there. Not interested in The Mob LP as such but there is an alternative mix of ‘Stay’ which I was absolutely interested in. This track also plays on one speaker. Point of fact – nothing wrong with my cassette playback system!

Any how, I do not like putting up faulty or mono cassettes onto this site, but this has to be an exception because of the rarity value. The Apostles, Primal Chaos, Black Flag, and The Heretics all for the price of…well nothing. Not sure of the history of the tape, no doubt Chris will comment on it. Not sure of the line up, track listing or anything else. Again I hope Chris or his chum Nic will comment. On the B-Side of the tape is a Flux live gig and a Napalm Death practice. All I the info I got what was written on the tape itself, just band names basically. I actually have not heard this tape yet cos wifey needed me to do something so I just let it play…hope Bucks Fizz does not come on half way through the recordings!

Info from Nic:

The Apostles:
Pete The Plectrum (later formed part of ‘The Hunt’ on the first LP)
Some Men Are Born To Rule (the first song the group ever wrote)
? (This isn’t from this time period if I remember correctly – it features the drum machine: is it ‘The Island’, Chris?)
Solidaridad Proletaria (This is the original title at the time of recording: it was later changed to ‘A New World In Our Hearts’ and was re-recorded on both tape and vinyl)
Killing for Peace
Proletarian Autonomy (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)
Time Bomb
Stoke Newington 8 (later re-recorded on tape and vinyl)

Primal Chaos – Rehearsal 1982:
Systems Slave (This isn’t part of their ‘Fighting for a Future’ rehearsal tape)

Black Flag – Rehearsal 1981:
The Master Race   (Earliest version of this song that I heard)
Waiting for the All Clear (later recorded by The Apostles, but this version features Matt Mcleod on vocals

The Heretics – Rehearsal 1980:
No Character

Jake from Heretics on stage with Iggs of Crass 1979

The Heretics

  1. Phil R
    Phil R
    November 15, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    1980/81 new years eve Throbbing Gristle gig at Heaven was the night ov my first hit (a snow ball). I quickly made up for lost time!

  2. Penguin
    Penguin • Post Author •
    November 15, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    It must be stated here and now specifically to the more youthful browsers of this site that mainlining commercial spirits like vodka or tequila is not a very good idea and must be avoided at ALL COSTS.

  3. luggy
    November 15, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    What spirits do you recommend then?

  4. johng
    November 15, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    definately not the holy spirit.

  5. baronvonzubb
    November 16, 2008 at 10:33 am

    But mainlining highly illegal and toxic substances is a good idea?
    Oh, I gedit, our younger browsers might go up the offy & get some.
    However if they’re gonna go to all the trouble of blagging a set of works then I reckon that they’ll get a decent illegal hit sorted out to go in ’em.
    However kids as Bob Short says ‘dont try this at home’
    And remember the contributors who are now boasting of past indiscretions can only do so ‘cos they’re alive to tell the tale.
    We have all been bloody lucky to survive.
    Actually I cant beleive that anyone under 35 reads this thread anyway.
    Phil youve been a very naughty boy.

  6. baronvonzubb
    November 16, 2008 at 10:39 am

    On a rather more kid friendly note, Sam?
    You and Si have been in contact for the whole time and I’m guesing that Si might have been living in North London for much of that time.
    And you were both in incomparable Fetish.
    Also had the Brooks’ in it also?
    Any news of any one who went to our school?

  7. Sam
    November 16, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    I bumped into Brooks about 8 years ago in Soho and met him in Hampstead for a pint. He managed to get Dan O’Dwyer and Fuzz and his brother out too. Was a bit surreal but good to see Nick who’s still a laugh. The level of poshness though…

  8. Jah Pork Pie
    Jah Pork Pie
    November 17, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    @Pengy->”mainlining commercial spirits like vodka or tequila is not a very good idea”

    Yes, it only encourages the drinks industry to keep charging ridiculous prices for miniatures. It’s a much more anarcho-friendly idea to get your old chemistry set out of the attic and boil up a batch of poteen or Dukes-Of-Hazzard-type ‘shine. And if you distil it enough (140 proof or so), it sterilises the works every time you use them too, so you’re helping to save the planet by recycling plastic barrels.


  9. Jah Pork Pie
    Jah Pork Pie
    November 17, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    @Baron->”Pork I have vague memory of you being spotted in the mornings in various states of womens attire”

    Yep, I was occasionally spotted around the squats in Ruth’s kilt or Mitzi’s school gear (might I mention that she was in the sixth form at the time? Cheers), but I’m afraid it wasn’t anything as interesting as transvestism, simply plain bloody idleness: I just used to pull on whatever was nearest and didn’t stink too much, which was sometimes apparel of the feminine type.

    I did used to like wearing that black t-shirt that Ruth had which had the hand prints on the front though (she’d got a tin of paint, stuck her hands in it and grabbed her own tits). It looked rather fetching on me, and the hands (obviously) pointed nearly south rather than east-west, as I was much less spectacularly-endowed than Ruthless was.

  10. Jah Pork Pie
    Jah Pork Pie
    November 17, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    @Baron-> just looking at your post from May 12th above: “Can you remember how dingy the ’50’s seemed to us?No TV, no dyed hair, no whatever we had.”

    The 50s seemed to me at the time to be the exact opposite of what we had: everything in the home and the environment was new, plastic and brightly-coloured, but the people I saw in the photographs were dull and uniform.

    London in ’79 was falling to bits (or at least, most of the bits that I frequented) and pollution-blackened. We were the only brightly-coloured things in it.

  11. baronvonzubb
    November 18, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Interesting inverse that, Pork
    Cheers for that Sam. Ah the Brookes. Yeah all a bit posh but great bit of gossip if you let on what there all up to. Fuzz? Was that Justin? They all living in Hampstead? What have they been up to for 30 years?
    The last time I saw or heard of any one – cept us of course – was meeting a Brookes on a bus in NW london and attempting to convince him of the merrits of shoplifting…In other words I was boasting. Silly boy.
    He was doing his A levels so that dates it.

  12. baron von zubb
    baron von zubb
    November 23, 2008 at 5:19 pm

    Sam. Re: the question above.
    I know S & T D are more interesting but im curious as hell.
    What have they done with the past 30 years? Or 22 till u saw ’em.

  13. baron von zubb
    baron von zubb
    November 24, 2008 at 11:39 am

    Go and buy this book kids. It’ll change your life.
    See post in ‘writings’ thread of this site.
    cheers BVZ

  14. Jah Pork Pie
    Jah Pork Pie
    November 30, 2008 at 12:07 am

    Just watching that documentary about the LA Hippie acoustic scene on the BBC, and (pace Neil Young, of course):

    I’ve been to Cricklewood
    I’ve been to St John’s Wood
    I crossed Waterloo Road
    for a heart of gold
    I’ve been in my mind,
    it’s such a fine line
    That keeps me searching
    for a heart of gold
    And I’m getting old.
    Keeps me searching
    for a heart of gold
    And I’m getting old.

    I think this probably puts me in the “positive punk” pigeonhole! 😉

  15. Sam
    December 2, 2008 at 2:28 am

    How very dare you reference Neil Young on this thread.

    “Sam. Re: the question above.
    I know S & T D are more interesting but im curious as hell.
    What have they done with the past 30 years? Or 22 till u saw ‘em.”

    Nick was working as a sculpture technician at St Martin’s School of Art when I saw him. He could very well be there. Justin was doing something to do with financial things up north in Huddersfield I think. Dan was working as a carpenter. Dan Brooks – some kind of publishing thing I think.

  16. Jah Pork Pie
    Jah Pork Pie
    December 2, 2008 at 3:36 am

    “Hippie, dear? Who, dear? Me, dear? No, dear!

    Just because a man references a bit of a hairy stoner acoustic peace anthem every now and happens to keep a pet afghan coat, you stand there and accuse him of being a card-carrying Deadhead and 5-bong-hit sitar pupil?

    How *very* dare you!”


  17. alistairliv
    December 2, 2008 at 7:51 am

    Down by the River, Cowgirl in the Sand, Like a Hurricane and Cortez the Killer. 35 minutes of guitar hero heaven.

    Hey Hey My My And Into the Black…

    The king is gone
    but he’s not forgotten
    Is this the story
    of Johnny Rotten?

  18. baronvonzubb
    January 11, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Now thats taking this thread in its very broadest sense.
    It may be ‘rare’ but Mr Chris , and I do know its your thread an all, but are The H band on that there discogs?
    Sam cheers for the Brooks update.

  19. Jah Pork Pie
    Jah Pork Pie
    January 16, 2009 at 9:32 am

    Heard something which I thought was quite applicable to something we were talking about on here a while ago, the subject of “elitist” punks (probably in the context of Adam and The Ants fans, if I remember)…

    There was a piece on Radio 4 the other day about Britten and the Peter Grimes thing. Somebody was saying that the music was quite bleak, and comented that Britten had intended it to be that way, for the reason that he saw the restrictions on personal freedom that authoritarian regimes (of either colour) put in place as being analogous to the restrictions on their own freedom that members of any avant-garde put on themselves.

    There were certainly some very po-faced moments that I can remember from ’70-’80-ish, in the sense of being told that there were things that you couldn’t like if you wanted to belong (and some things that you *had* to like, too). Looking back, this doesn’t seem all that compatible with freedom, does it?

    Any thoughts?

  20. alistairliv
    February 18, 2009 at 10:17 am

    Just posted a youtube comment – my daughter Elizabeth is 22 and still can’t play her guitar as well as that…

  21. Sam
    February 18, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Cheers Alistair. He’ll be pleased. He turned 8 in November. He gets home from school and plays guitar for an hour or more. Nice it’s not all video games.

  22. baron von zubb
    baron von zubb
    March 3, 2009 at 11:13 am

    wheres the catholics?

  23. Sam
    March 9, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    “There was always a whiff of senseless Dickensian murder to that subculture that seemed to spring from some dark well of London’s ancient blackness.

    London always seems to be incalculably new yet primeval and remotely unchanging at the same time. It’s like watching someone with an extraordinary madness endlessly repeating the same cycles in a bright succession of endless carnivals. Roll up ! Roll Up! No matter how innovative the acts, you always get the feeling one has seen them before, long long ago. That’s why I don’t really fear for the future. Father Thames seems to have eternal dominion here.”

    Just re read parts of this thread and I think I missed that from Mr Fokker. I’m reading ‘London -the biography’ by Peter Ackroyd – well worth the read and it’s fascinating how many things we saw as modern traits have been there in the city all along. It’s always had the reputation for violence and noisyness. I guess I never appreciated it until I moved over here but we were all formed in part, by London’s past and grew up amongst its ghosts. I’ll always look back at the late ’70s as the Middle Ages. Bleak, barbaric, potential death or maiming around every street corner. Ancient blackness indeed.

  24. baron von zubb
    baron von zubb
    March 12, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Yeah he’s a really cool writer.
    Read the one before.
    Looking forward to the new one.

    So, if the states has no history whats its excuse for the barbarism?
    I dont mean Iraq etc. I mean the way that its at social war with itself.
    Or was I projecting when I was there?

  25. Sam
    May 7, 2009 at 5:26 am

    How do you mean?

  26. Jah Pork Pie
    Jah Pork Pie
    May 7, 2009 at 9:30 am

    History is written by winners of ward.

    There are groups in the States who have been deprived of their own histories (by various nefarious means).

    To overcome the Fukuyama Effect (“Living In The End Of History”) and reclaim their own histories – with the missing bits replaced – some people feel they have to play the modernist game and win something martial. They haven’t got the joke yet.

  27. sparring gear
    sparring gear
    May 20, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    @Jah Pork Pie
    Being deprived of one’s historical identity breeds a nostalgia for things or events unknown.

  28. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker
    Kerr Ray Z. Fokker
    July 2, 2009 at 10:07 am

    Sorry about the delay in replying, had to see a man about a shaggy dog story….(as my old mate Vince used to quip).

    Don’t know if I ever felt that threatened by the street level fascists as such. After I visited Germany and met genuine neo-Nazis I realised that, thank God, Brits don’t really do right-wing extremism very well. Something to do with our inherent liberalism, self-deprecating humour and love of the underdog. (At least at home that is. Ireland is a different matter. The bogs seem to turn us quickly into Teutonic brutes). Reminds me of what someone told me about a German-Jewish refugee’s recollections of blackshirts in the East End during the 30s. He said that whenever he saw them he gave them a polite nod and a friendly “Good morning”. Slightly embarrassed, they would always return the courtesy. He said that would have NEVER happened in Weimar/Nazi Germany. Yeah, we can do beer-swilling thugs as well as the next nation but the brutality always seems to have self-imposed limits. Another bright spark also said that if you really wanted to stop fascism in Britain Plc then just dynamite the member’s stand at Twickenham on a matchday. Have to agree there too. Working-class thugs are useful idiots when all is said and done but it’s the bankers, industrialists and golf club members who pose the real threat if things turn really ugly. Follow the money and you’re never wrong imho. One Krupp or a Thyssen is more dangerous then a thousand Hitlers. It’s the effing system.
    As for AFA stopping all the thuggery if they had been organised a bit earlier, I am not so sure. Rather it was the thuggery that was the catalyst for the AFA getting organised in the first place. From what I remember most of the organised extreme right-wing thuggery in the London area back then could be more or less traced back to two brothers who ran West Ham’s main terrace firm. And it wasn’t the left who thwarted them in the end but rather their absurd descent into music hall neo-nazism that turned off most of their own supporters.They were game as fuck though; the younger one, whom you will undoubtedly know of, was as mad as they come. He’d take on a dozen AFA before breakfast in his underpants if given the opportunity.The funny thing was that I knew him, and his brother, mainly through a mensch from Hoxton who lost a lot of relatives at Treblinka. They were the staunchest of friends too. Their mob at West ham also included a few blacks from East Ham and Canning Town. Like I said, we don’t seem to be able to do fascism properly. And as for Donald from Summerstown, which brings me neatly to….

    @Jah Pork…Yep, you knew him alright. He was a real character back then. Seemed to appear everywhere. And. as you say, a decent bloke too. A mate of mine used to hang out with him on home international or cup final day when all the London hooligans would mob up and take on the northerners and/or Jocks. Jimmy Lydon, 4b2 fame and JR’s elder brother, was part of that crowd too along with a few others who went on to better and brighter things. One geezer, from Islington, is now a world famous theatre director. But back then you might find him hanging out with Millwall at weekends. I do remember the Coleherne pub in Earl’s Court being a place where the baddest, bizarrest, craziest and meanest would shake hands with the campest blue-rinse rentboys and the most frivolous grotesques and messed-up uber-druggies imaginable. Sometimes you couldn’t tell the nelly gays, let alone the bull queers, from the football thugs and gangsters. Especially if you were on the Potter’s catarrh powder like me. (The skinhead DMT as we called it). Sure I remember shortarse skinhead Kenny from Stonebridge Park in there too. The stuff of nightmares, one might say.

    @Sam. If you like Ackroyd then try and track down some of the works of Robert Thurston Hopkins. He loved and understood London as no man ever did. Grew up in the 1890s with Machen, Thompson and Dowson for company and then worked in a bank in Pall Mall for forty odd years. But at night he’d prowl the streets looking for Father Thames’ lost heart. Best ever description of an authentic prewar Limehouse opium den comes from his pen. Try and get a copy of This London: It’s Taverns, Haunts and Memories. He’s a beautifully poetic writer. And he’s without doubt the finest raconteur that ever lived. His accounts of the last of the London coiners, along with many other shady characters from the Cockney underworld, are amusing, poignant and deeply haunting. He also told the best ghost stories I have ever heard. Try Bookfinder or Alibris for his largely forgotten yet immense library of outpourings .

    “Separated by the locust years our adventures grow dingy and our miracles seem commonplace.”

    I’m having that on my fucking tombstone. Kudos to Mr Hopkins, God bless him!

    Btw, thanks to everyone, and I mean everyone on this thread, for keeping the convo going. You’re all diamond geezers in my book. I’d give you all my last subutex if you asked. That’s how much I am in debt to you. More power to your elbows!

  29. Pelican
    August 6, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    From what I remember most of the organised extreme right-wing thuggery in the London area back then could be more or less traced back to two brothers who ran West Ham’s main terrace firm.

    The two west ham brothers – geggus / stinky turner??

  30. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker
    Kerr Ray Z. Fokker
    August 8, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    No. Their name begins with an M. The older one was killed in a hit-and-run over a decade ago. The younger one was, last I heard, very ill in hospital. The Cockney Rejects were West Side boys along with most of the bonehead following. This lot were South Bank. Also part of the London Utd firm – but that’s another story…..

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