Picture uploaded due to sudden surge of interest in this lady via the the Exploited post of 29 September 2008…!
Picture uploaded due to sudden surge of interest in this lady via the the Exploited post of 29 September 2008…!
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Nic
October 15, 2008 at 2:12 pmYou can’t really compare Hip Hop to ‘Acid House’…both very different musical genres…
And the Hip Hop from 1987 – 1989 will remain eminently listenable (thanks to – as John pointed out – the SP1200) whereas early ‘Acid House’ records (I don’t include the Detroit / Chicago axis in this term) had terrible production and consequently sound both dated and weak…
Chris
October 15, 2008 at 2:50 pmNic, ALL the early acid house records WERE from Chicago.
To say early Chicago/Detroit records sound dated and weak is like saying Jimi Hendrix records sound dated and weak. Utter tosh. In many cases it IS the rudimentary production and DIY approach (a 303 and 606 connected together; the results recorded onto cassette tape a la early Dance mania, Saber etc records) is what MAKES them, just as i’d expect you’d agree a cassette demo of The Sinyx recorded on a 4-track Tascam mixer is more exciting and visceral than many of today’s multi-track, digital recordings?
Yes, ‘Rave records’, ie the hoover crap from Belgium, Germany, UK sounds shit, but that’s because even when it came out in the early 1990s it sounded shit.
Phil R
October 15, 2008 at 3:28 pmAcid House isnt really dead it just evolved into different branches eg Drum and Bass. The free party scene isnt about anymore cos of John Majors conservative gov bringing the criminal justice bill.
I would go to raves and find footie supporters, gays, blacks, new age travellers all dancing and communicating together which seemed political to me.
Nic
October 15, 2008 at 3:53 pmI would have to disagree, Chris: there were many 12″‘s made in the UK during the period I flagged (1987 – 1989) which were influenced by the American sounds…
From my post, you can see I didn’t include Detroit and Chicago in my comment (which is why I worded it particularly carefully to attempt to ensure that it couldn’t be misconstrued)…
I don’t think we will ever agree on this, just as we don’t agree about Disorder…C’est la vie, mon ami!
Nic
October 15, 2008 at 3:54 pmJust a quick post from Mr. Grumpy…
🙂
While I understand that the early Rave scene was exciting to many people (and would seem doubly more so during the “Pop Culture drought” which occurred in Britain in the late 1980’s), it seems both misguided and ludicrous to suggest that it was anything more than that…
Whenever people mention Rave, the comments always contain elements which suggest that it had something more about it than the (natural) hedonistic desire to have a good time. However, I really couldn’t see (and still can’t) much difference between the Rave scene and the wider culture within which it existed: it not only looked backwards to a de-politicised utopia of ‘partying’ (Disco!) but was also quickly coloured by the parent culture (as the drug scene brought organized crime and the associated violence). Far from being ‘potentially liberating’, it represented a cul-de-sac: it only attracted the attention of government bodies because it had a marginal impact on property (which has always been a key talisman for the capitalist society) and because it involved overt displays of organized crime… If anything, one could suggest that the Rave scene helped to finally kill off the Free Festival sub-culture in Britain…
The ‘power’ of this movement was demonstrated by the introduction of the Criminal Justice Act – where was the mass uprising against the Act by a ‘generation’ who had found ‘new ways’ to ‘valorise themselves’? Nowhere is the simple answer…because it was only ever about drugs and dancing, nothing more… It was purely a party – an excuse to get off your head and not to feel so alone. And that’s great – it’s lonely out there. But it didn’t have any great ideas or import beyond that: none whatsoever…
And how exactly was the Rave scene ‘creative’?
In its underlying ideas (of ‘freedom’ and the ‘free party’)? Sounds pretty much like the Hippies (and every other youth sub-culture)…
‘New ways to party’…Do you mean having a festival in a field? A bit like the Hippies did back in the early 1970’s? Or having a party in a squatted building? A bit like those other Hippies Crass did at the Zig Zag club?
Musically? The majority of the records made at the time were a carbon of a second hand impression of a very interesting and forward-thinking music scene (which was – in itself – much more radical than Rave ever was): hardly radical…
Literature? Errrmmm…
Clothing? Hippy tie-dye, fluorescent paint, baggy trousers, jester hats…Is this a Hippy festival in the early 70’s?
And this is getting ‘Real’?
A quick Donald Wolfit-esque cry of “Physician, heal thyself!” is probably apt…
The irony here is the reality of what actually happened…
Let’s face it: how many of you old farts who grumbled on about the Hippies suddenly started traveling to forests and fields, started wearing baggy Dayglo and tie-dyed clothing, and started doing ‘interpretive’ dancing to music which might as well be made by Planet Gong (System 7) or Michael Moorcock’s Deep Fix?
You turned into Hippies!
🙂
In terms of the attendant music, none of it ‘sent shivers up my spine’ at the time and it definitely doesn’t now…Weak production, weak mastering, weak records…
Perhaps it is a question of engagement? For me, I have never felt that I would gain much by closing down my critical faculties and – consequently – it didn’t matter how ‘severely refreshed’ I am: a bad record just sounds like a bad record…
I would suggest that there was actually a lot of very interesting music around at the time: if I think back to that period (say, 1987 to 1990), I remember a really wide spectrum of music which was both conceptually and sonically interesting, much of which still stands up to repeated listening today…
I’m thinking of the nascent Breakbeat releases (Depthcharge, Meat Beat Manifesto, some of the Shut Up and Dance releases, the early JAMS releases), the new Psychedelics (Spacemen 3, Loop, Union Carbide), Hip Hop (from PE, Stetsasonic and UMCs to NWA on to London Posse, Ruthless Rap Assassins and Silver Bullet), Death Metal and Grindcore, Ragga (Daddy Freddy and Asher D mashed it every time), American Noise Rock (from Big Black and Cows to Tar and the early Am Rep releases), the Japanese noise scene (Boredoms, Hanatarash, Absolut Null Punkt / Zeni Geva, Masonna, et al), the ‘C86’ / ‘Twee’ scene (all heavily influenced by Shangri-la’s and Television Personalities), Doom Metal (Saint Vitus!), the development of Industrial music towards a drone-focused aesthetic, On U Sound (a particularly fertile period for the label and its artists), heavy guitar damage (such as World Domination Enterprises, Skullflower and Unholy Swill), and Japanese thrash (which gave the Hardcore genre an adrenalin soaked kick which increased its intensity)…
And that doesn’t count all the burrowing back into the past (I remember particularly finding out a lot about Free Jazz and Modern Composition at that time)…
Hip Hop in particular pointed towards a much more interesting sonic mix for the dancefloor (one which relied on the looseness of the funk groove to allow freedom shapes to develop, rather than the martial slave rhythm of the 4-to-the-floor beat, and which developed a much more satisfying aural palette thanks to the brothers molesting the SP1200, as John pointed out)…
For me, Rave became far more interesting when the producers associated with Warp, R & S and Basic Channel started to come through, and when Jungle began to develop…
All in all, I have to take a similar view to Andus…
I didn’t want to be involved in a youth sub-culture which seemed both lacking in mental stimulation and intellectually barren (at least in its manifestations – I don’t mean that as a comment on the people involved), which had a strong focus on absorption into the group mind (particularly when a large percentage of the people involved seemed to be the kind of people who I had spent most of my life trying to get away from), and which was soundtracked by a thin and pallid musical backdrop…
I had no interest in seeing Discharge in the late 1980’s, but neither did I particularly want to go to a Rave…I went to enough ‘Raves’ during the period (in a spirit of inquisitiveness) – firstly in 1987 at various places in London (thanks to friends who were tuned in), then in Midlands and Welsh locations (and some ‘Up North’ trips), and attended my last one at Castlemorton (unless you can count the Exodus festivals as ‘Raves’). However, they just didn’t give me what they obviously gave other people: in fact, I found Castlemorton to be a fairly depressing experience in retrospect…
The whole thing had an aura of despair about it (despite all of the synthetic togetherness and the talk of sunrises, togetherness and community). Was it much more than a gathering of the lost who – once they had arrived at their point of destination – didn’t know what they actually wanted to do, and consequently watched everything disintegrate around them from under a protective blanket of Soma…As Andus noted, the relics of the early 1980’s youth cults had taken their place in the cycle (change every 2 years for early adopters, 5 years for the sub-culture as a whole) and were waiting for the bandwagon to arrive fully formed, rather than trying to create something a little more interesting…
Interestingly, it may be possible to posit a parallel between the Rave and the rituals of the Mystery Religions (particularly the Eleusinian rituals) – with one key difference: the Mystery Religions had a sharp focus to their magical practices whereas the ‘Raves’ didn’t. The magical energy was produced and then unable to dissipate: seething with energy, it sucked upon itself in a cycle moving towards entropy and inertia. All the while, the Black Freemasons were astrally projecting over the Rave sites absorbing the energy…
Or something like that…
Nic
October 15, 2008 at 3:54 pmThe difference in the sound between the first 2 Beastie Boys albums was phenomenal, John. I remember at the time we were looking forward to ‘Paul’s Boutique’ and it made everyone lose their minds: so dense, so much colour and movement . The opportunities which the sampler opened up really expanded the possibilities…
I wish I’d seen them play that album live – I saw them on either side of the album (in 1987 with Run DMC and then with Rollins on the ‘Check Your Head’ tour), but I would have loved to have heard ‘Paul’s Boutique’ in concert…
Chris
October 15, 2008 at 4:09 pmQUOTE: Let’s face it: how many of you old farts who grumbled on about the Hippies suddenly started traveling to forests and fields, started wearing baggy Dayglo and tie-dyed clothing, and started doing ‘interpretive’ dancing to music which might as well be made by Planet Gong (System 7) or Michael Moorcock’s Deep Fix?
UUUUggghhhh, that sounds fucking hideous!! never came across any of that and good bloody job!
Ok, i think there is a very definite seperation between the ‘club’ scene and the rave scene, and i really have never had any great interest in the latter. Though for the past 20+ years there would be barely one week when i have never gone out to clubs for no more reason than to have a laugh with friends, have a few drinks, the odd E or line of changa and see if there’s any nice girls to get off with. And i think you would find that is the clubbing experience of 99.9+% of folk who go clubbing every weekend who would as soon consider it as having any paralell with “Eleusinian Rituals” as fly to the moon.
Nic
October 15, 2008 at 4:18 pmIf you can make a distinction like that, Chris, then the ‘Club’ scene is interesting (at least sonically and for the R&R opportunities 😉 ), whereas the ‘Rave’ scene isn’t…
Just because people don’t necessarily know what it is that they are doing doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it…
😉
Not that it matters – it’s only a Disco…
…but…you just wrote that big splurge…and it’s only a Disco…aren’t you wasting your time?
HELLFIRE!!!
Chris
October 15, 2008 at 4:26 pmJust because people don’t necessarily know what it is that they are doing doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it…
yes, i studied Derrida, Lacan and Barthes too 😉
alistairliv • Post Author •
October 15, 2008 at 5:33 pm“He who controls the Spice, controls the Universe”
From Nic’s comment above
Interestingly, it may be possible to posit a parallel between the Rave and the rituals of the Mystery Religions (particularly the Eleusinian rituals) – with one key difference: the Mystery Religions had a sharp focus to their magical practices whereas the ‘Raves’ didn’t. The magical energy was produced and then unable to dissipate: seething with energy, it sucked upon itself in a cycle moving towards entropy and inertia. All the while, the Black Freemasons were astrally projecting over the Rave sites absorbing the energy…
“The spice must flow…” just scrabbled through my boxes of vinyl to find “Spice” by Eon, released by Vinyl Solution 1990. [ Captain Colin Faver and Mr. Mark Moore head up the credits list]
It has a few samples on it from Dune the movie, which is based on Frank Herbert’s mystical sf series of Dune books. It was the first actual record I had bought in years, had to go into a record shop in the Mare Street Narrow Way and explain I had no idea what the record was called or who it was by but it had a sample from the Dune movie on it… and got a total blank look. Luckily someone else in the shop said “He means the Spice record” and so I got a copy.
At the time I was being a ‘chaos magician’ and the music on its own – not the clubbing etc scenes- felt part of my version of chaos magic. [All the other chaos types hated it and listened to death/black metal].
It did send shivers down my spine – summer 1990 Mouse (ex-PTV) made a tape of KLF (instrumental version of What Times is Love) and The Shamen and similar for a gathering of the non-chaos magic European Ma’at Network which she and Pinki and Amodali organised [check out http://www.myspace.com/amodali to get a feel for the wierdness] and it entranced everyone.
I guess it was/is the techno-trance stuff which is the most ‘magical’, where the music gets into Hawkwind/ Sister Ray rhythmic mode with trippy beeps and doodles on top, underneath and roundabout – which reminded me of the voodoo drumming soundtrack to Maya Deren’s “Divine Horesmen”. That certain musical structures can invoke trance states of consciousness. Dub music has a similar effect if on constant playback.
When I am writing -even my hard core history stuff – I will put on hours of ‘classic trance’ or ‘extreme euphoria’ cds as a way to focus on the writing/thinking/writing. I don’t really hear the music, I guess it creates a bubble of slightly altered state of cosnciousness around me within which I can work.
As to misuse of the trance states in clubs etc – a friend who went clubbing in Hackney was concerned about that and made a point of visiting me and Pinki to ask us about it. Although the misuse was at the level of sex and petty thieving rather than occult conspiracy.
alistairliv • Post Author •
October 15, 2008 at 5:37 pmLink hasn’t come up – will try again
http://www.myspace.com/amodali
alistairliv • Post Author •
October 15, 2008 at 6:13 pmEven the more poppy stuff is great I still listen to N-Trance ‘Set you free’
but my favourite has got to be “Insanity” by Oceanic – just found their TOTP performance of it on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxFJga1QWCI
The way the singer – Jorrinde Williams, 36 on 12 October – GROWLS “oooh your taking me higher”. A case of love at first growl. I was utterly smitten. “Take me into insanity…”. Now off to listen to the 7 minute tripping mix.
Though I guess for the full on chaos magic experience you have to watch/ listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocvuhjW1nXY
Phil R
October 16, 2008 at 8:27 amI think at one point some people in the counter culture identified a potential
in the rave scene to be subversive. And along with everyone else were jumping on the band wagon.
Anyone got a copy of “Jack the Tab” by PTV ? I would love to here that again
Phil R
October 16, 2008 at 9:00 amAlistair > strange ive never heard of the Black freemasons, but i got very close to the two main sound systems that were at castlemorton and we where getting followed by theses strange MIB types…Fuck knows what they were..Still makes me shudder thinking about them..Maybe it was paranoia n’ chems..It all seemed real and spooky at the time!
Nic
October 16, 2008 at 9:15 amI’ve got it on vinyl, Phil, but here is a link to a digital version:
http://theebradmiller.blogspot.com/2007/10/psychic-tv-jack-tab-1988.html
Phil R
October 16, 2008 at 9:17 amGreat cheers Nic
baron von zubb
October 16, 2008 at 7:24 pmHate to say it but ‘rave’ hasnt died out at all.
Can’t stand the stuff now, but there are huge international psi trance festivals for example.
Not my cuppa tea funnily enough for all the reasons the nay sayers posted.
But back in the day, and without ‘E’ in my case, there was nothing better than dancing all night. To music designed for that.
It was a brilliant way to, brace yourselves, as this is cosmic hippie claptrap, lose yourself and feel a connection to something other than the self. Like a meditative state, a transendence.
10000 people all dancing at once in the same space is powerful medicine.
I’d never come across that experience and it blew me away .
As it did a lot of people.
It’s very different to sitting on your fat hippie arse in field, it really is.
To say ‘rave’ was any less creative or radical at the time than say ‘punk’ is just daft.
Punk was rock n roll & we looked like glam rockers. Acid House was disco on MDMA, and they looked like Captain Sensible on a sunday. Drum n Bass was speeded hip hop with reggae sampling.
All creative.
Or not.
Oh and Nic, listen to your discos again. Early Acid house does not have that 4 to the floor beat.
The good stuff anyway is mostly off beats and big bass lines.
It got dull quick, like alot of things.
andus
October 16, 2008 at 7:48 pmI went to this rave once, pissed and speeding, I was standing next to this chap, I looked at him and said ‘alright mate’ with that he pushed me aggressively with both hands, stomped off past me and out the door, I followed him and looked out the door, and he was stomping off down the street kicking things in his wake. What did I say. !!!
baron von zubb
October 17, 2008 at 6:50 pmWrong venue bruv