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Be like Me<\/a><\/p>\n Ten Miles High<\/a><\/p>\n Another year rolls away and we are now in 2011. For the first \u00a0post of this new year I have chosen Zos Kia’s essential second vinyl release on the Temple record label run by Genesis P Orridge of Psychic TV out of his Beck Road base in Hackney.<\/p>\n This record was played to death at the time of it’s release in a much younger Penguin household. The track ‘Be Like Me’ being a real foot stomper, after a couple of minutes introduction of pleasant piano, with lyrics courtesy of the Reverend Jim Jones, infamous leader of San Francisco’s Peoples Temple that\u00a0met a sudden and violent end in 1978 with the suicide of more than 900 Temple members in Jonestown, Guyana along with the killings of five other people at a nearby airstrip.<\/p>\n Play this record at maximum volume and then some…<\/p>\n The debut single from Zos Kia ‘Rape’ released on the All The Madmen record label which was\u00a0also based in Hackney is also available on this site right HERE<\/strong><\/a>\u00a0<\/strong>the third and final Zos Kia release, also released on Temple Records, may be listened to HERE<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n Photographs below courtesy of Min and Andrew Rawlings, black and whites from the Psychic TV’s Sordide Sentimental booklet that accompanied the ‘Roman P’ single and an image from the Psychic TV ‘Transmissions’ video inserted into ‘The Grey Book’.<\/p>\n John Gosling 2006 interview text below robbed from barcode.com.<\/p>\n Zos Kia was initially formed by John Gosling along with John Balance and Min. This trio, along with Peter Christopherson on sound and other guests, recorded and performed several concerts in 1982\/83 under the names Zos Kia and Coil and some of this material is available on the Coil\/Zos Kia release \u2018Transparent\u2019.<\/p>\n In 1983, Balance and Christopherson left to concentrate on Coil full-time. All material released under the Zos Kia name alone was primarily the work of John Gosling. After retiring the Zos Kia name after two singles \u2018Rape\u2019 and \u2018Be Like Me\u2019, Gosling went on to record with Sugardog, Psychic TV and work solo as Sugar J and Mekon.<\/p>\n John Gosling evolved from being a bit-part member of Psychic TV into an influential remixer and producer of big-beat techno throughout the mid-90s.<\/p>\n Partly responsible for the uprising of the British breakbeat sound, originally influenced by American hip-hop culture, associations with “Mad” Frankie Fraser (Revenge of the Mekon) and Schoolly D (Skool’s Out), followed Gosling’s 1994 debut, Phatty’s Lunchbox.<\/p>\n Gosling’s third solo album, Some Thing Came Up is arguably his best – featuring strong collaborations from Roxanne Shante, Marc Almond, Afrika Bambaataa, Alan Vega, and Bobby Gillespie, via artistic direction from Alexander McQueen.<\/p>\n Can I first ask how you became involved with Psychic TV and what your role in the band was? I got involved with them through being a big Throbbing Gristle fan basically, I used to come up with drum loops, just any kind of loops \u2013 that was my obsession at the time, just looping up bits of tape and providing backing and rhythm tracks.<\/p>\n Was that the days before sampling and drum machines? No, I think drum machines had just come in. Just when they started getting good anyway, it was a DMX (Oberheim) the first one we had.<\/p>\n Was Genesis P. Orridge your introduction into the band? Yeah, through Throbbing Gristle, going to their gigs basically.<\/p>\n And what was your introduction to music? I guess I always go back to James Brown and The Velvet Underground, they were my real early loves, the two bands that made me wanna make music. It was quite unusual to like both of those when I was a kid, because you were either this or that. I\u2019m going back a long way (laughs). But that\u2019s how it was then, you were either like a skinhead or a greaser. I was kinda like a druggy skinhead (laughs).<\/p>\n A skinhead who liked James Brown? Yeah, I loved James Brown. When I was about 14 I used to take magic mushrooms and trip out to James Brown.<\/p>\n You studied saxaphone and bass guitar didn\u2019t you, at first? Saxaphone was the only instrument I really had any lessons in, sax and drums. But I was not really any good at either (laughs), which sort of led me into being more experimental. I realised that I was never going to be the world\u2019s greatest saxaphone player or drummer.<\/p>\n But something must have led you towards bands such as Throbbing Gristle? That whole scene? I guess through bands like 23 Skidoo and Cabaret Voltaire, there was quite a big scene going on in the early eighties. Clubbing was not what it is now, if there was a club on in London that was good, y\u2019know that would be the one. You would see the same fifty people at that club as you would at the next; it wasn\u2019t like the mass thing that it is now.<\/p>\n So what was it like working with Genesis P. Orridge? The last time I saw him he\u2019d got himself a new pair of tits. Yeah, someone told me something really funny. Some old TG fan went to see them recently when they played at the Astoria \u2013 it was Andy Weatherall that told me this story, I said \u201cwhat did you think of Throbbing Gristle?\u201d and he said \u201cthat wasn\u2019t Throbbing Gristle that was Eddie Izzard.\u201d<\/p>\n I can see what he meant. Scary innit? All power to him, he never gives up Gens. You have to kind of respect the fact that he\u2019s being doing it so long and he\u2019s still as hardcore as he ever was. It must take something to sustain that level of mentalness.<\/p>\n He\u2019s completely mad basically, but that\u2019s a good thing. I think that\u2019s a good thing in an artist, especially these days when things are particularly bland. He\u2019s a really clever guy, and he\u2019s very wordy \u2013 if you ever read his writing it\u2019s quite impressive.<\/p>\n Listening to your new album (Some Thing Came Up), it has a very contemporary electronic sound but also quite rocky as well? It was done quite instinctively; I like all those kind of things. For me the battle is always to try and incorporate all my influences because they\u2019re quite disparate and don\u2019t give themselves naturally to blending together. When I start out, what I actually end up with is completely different to how I envisaged it. It\u2019s not like I thought, right let\u2019s make this sort of record; that\u2019s just the way it ended up.<\/p>\n When you get this fusion of hard rock and a prominent electronic sound you tend to end up with what people call \u2018Industrial\u2019. Is that a genre that appeals to you? What industrial? Yeah, very much so, I spent years sitting in damp cellars banging bits of metal (laughs). I do like that whole thing, and on the other hand I like Alexander O\u2019Neill \u2013 so that for me is a real challenge! How the fuck do you get those two to work together? To go back to what I was saying earlier, I\u2019m not a naturally gifted musician, so I kind of feel my role is to try and push things that haven\u2019t been done before, whether I succeed or not is for other people to say.<\/p>\n The cover art (an image of a rectum) is interesting to say the least? (Laughs)<\/p>\n You got Alexander McQueen to do it – did you need to give him much artistic direction? I didn\u2019t give him any, when he presented me with what he wanted to do I was like, \u201cgo on then, do what you want mate!\u201d<\/p>\n Did you say you wanted something that was\u2026 (interrupts) I didn\u2019t say anything, I said will you do my artwork, thinking he would come up with something elegant. But he\u2019s like that, he\u2019s the kind of guy who\u2019ll go \u201cright, I\u2019ll fucking show you \u2013 you want me to do your artwork for nothing, how do you like them onions mate?\u201d And I sort of double-bluffed him and went \u201cno, that\u2019s fine!\u201d and when that was all I ended up with I was like \u201coh my God!\u201d *(laughs).<\/p>\n Did you give him a copy of the album beforehand? Yeah I did, I gave him a copy to begin with and he was really into it, which was nice.<\/p>\n He obviously picked up on its harsh sound, maybe quite provocative? Yeah, maybe that is the case. He said, \u201cGod, I quite like it\u201d – like he was expecting to hate it, which actually quite surprised me. But he very much works like that himself. With the album, I didn\u2019t have any money so I just let people do exactly what they wanted. It would have been taking the piss to say, \u201cdo this\u201d but I\u2019m not gonna pay you. What I quite like about it is that, in a way, it was like what I was saying earlier about industrial and soul music, because on the outside it looks like a Barry White cover and on the inside it\u2019s so not.<\/p>\n I was going to say, it\u2019s such a contrast \u2013 let\u2019s just hope the disc art’s not a self portrait. It\u2019s definitely not me, and it\u2019s not him actually \u2013 it was actually part of a series of about ten of them in a gallery, and the guy who took the original photograph said \u201cyou know what, I don\u2019t recognise that one\u201d. I\u2019m like, it\u2019s kind of just as well mate, it\u2019s be a bit worrying if you did!<\/p>\n Well from listening to the album, I noticed the beats and drumming were quite fluid. Would I be correct in saying there\u2019s a mixture of live drums and programming? Yeah, true and the guy who programmed it is a drummer first and foremost.<\/p>\n So you\u2019re getting a drummer to drum and then sampling the end product? Yeah, exactly that. We did go into a half decent studio and record lots of live drums and then chopped them up and made them sound variable. I really liked that period in music, I think things have become too digital and tight. I like it when the electronic thing wanders out here and there, wanders out of time, because it adds longevity to things. Stuff that\u2019s really precisely programmed only has a certain shelf life. I don\u2019t know why that it is.<\/p>\n Maybe because people get over-reliant on using sampled loops and you start hearing the same loops on dozens of different records. Exactly, and it\u2019s just so much more fun as well working with live musicians. Plus things are so geared to digital now, I think you have to try and have a bit of analogue in there. I think it\u2019s amazing what you can do with a computer now, it\u2019s completely mental. The kind of thing you\u2019d have paid a grand a day for you can now have in your front room \u2013 I\u2019m all for that, but it can get too much.<\/p>\n The technology can sort of lead you rather than the other way around? Yeah, and you tend to end up doing what a lot of other people are doing because of the way the programs are designed.<\/p>\n One of the best tracks is Blood On The Moon, maybe even one of the best tracks I\u2019ve heard this year. I understand has quite an interesting concept behind it, lyrically? Probably (laughs). It was sung with Alan (Vega), but I didn\u2019t have any idea what he was going on about basically until I read a piece he had written about me and I realised \u201coh, that\u2019s what it\u2019s about.\u201d<\/p>\n I read somewhere that it was about a colony on the moon, or America building bases on the moon, which makes the title fairly self explanatory. Yeah, I\u2019m sure that is what it\u2019s about (laughs). He\u2019s quite political Alan, certainly not shy.<\/p>\n So it\u2019s Alan Vega from Suicide on there and also Bobby Gillespie from Primal Scream? Yeah, he\u2019s no shrinking violet either.<\/p>\n When you heard their contribution you must have been delighted? Oh god yeah, over the moon (laughs). Absolutely, to me, to hear people singing passionately is really exciting. When I took it in to Wall Of Sound, they were like \u201cthat\u2019s a bit strong\u201d, and I was like \u201cwell, if not now, when?\u201d It\u2019s great for me to hear people doing something that is not just, I don\u2019t know, saying nothing! I\u2019m quite surprised there\u2019s not more songs like that out there really. Where\u2019s the voice of anyone in the music world? No one\u2019s saying fuck all about what\u2019s going on, and what\u2019s going on is really quite out of control and horrendous and scary. You can\u2019t imagine previous generations putting up with it, or not having some say about it.<\/p>\n “Yeah, I loved James Brown. When I was about 14 I used to take magic mushrooms and trip out to James Brown.”<\/p>\n I also like the track Delirious, with Marc Almond? Oh, I\u2019m glad you like that, I really like that one.<\/p>\n Did you write the track with him in mind as vocalist? Erm, yeah \u2013 actually we wrote the track around his vocal. We originally gave him a really simple groove to work with and he put the vocal down, so everything was done completely around his vocal, quite organically.<\/p>\n I believe you\u2019ve worked with Marc in the past? Yeah I\u2019ve known him years; it\u2019s scary how long I\u2019ve known him \u2013 something like 20 years, going back to the Psychic TV days when we were both on the same label.<\/p>\n Is there an element on this album of taking these artists and deliberately putting them in unfamiliar surroundings? Yeah, there is, that\u2019s very astute.<\/p>\n I was wondering how contrived it was or whether they\u2019re just mates of yours and you wanted to use them? Both really, they\u2019re mates, people I respect, or a better way of putting it \u2013 a big fan of. But I also wanted to put them in environments I hadn\u2019t heard them in before, because that\u2019s more interesting to me.<\/p>\n The final song, K Blues, written with Kevin Mooney \u2013 once of Adam & The Ants \u2013 is very interesting, a sort of electronic\/country music hybrid? Yeah, I basically just gave him a drumbeat, and the original thing he came up with was this sort of heartfelt blues. And I know the guy and I know his life story and what he\u2019s singing about is very\u2026 he\u2019s not making it up. I didn\u2019t want to just do a blues song, so again, we built the track around it, and hopefully no one else would think of doing it in that kind of way.<\/p>\n I mean, that really is an example of an experimental approach to combining electronic music with other genres of music? I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve heard many songs like that before. Well that for me is a success then in that case, even if it\u2019s no good \u2013 as long as you\u2019ve never heard anything like it then I\u2019m happy (laughs).<\/p>\n The only thing I think I could compare it to was maybe Depeche Mode\u2019s Personal Jesus? Yeah, that\u2019s actually quite true. That\u2019s certainly no insult because I like that song a lot; I like Johnny Cash\u2019s version as well.<\/p>\n There\u2019s also a banging techno track with Afrika Bambaataa? Yeah, god knows what that\u2019s all about.<\/p>\n Is this someone you\u2019ve always wanted to work with going back to your days as a hip-hop DJ? Absolutely, yeah, totally \u2013 he\u2019s the leader of the Zulu Nation (laughs). To me, he represents all that\u2019s good about hip-hop \u2013 that era for me is particularly golden \u2013 so to actually work with him, I\u2019m sitting there thinking, \u201cwow, this is amazing!\u201d<\/p>\n With all these collaborations, was there a lot of file swapping going on or did most of them come down and work in the studio with you? For (Roxanne) Shante and Bam, I went over to New York and recorded them, just because it would be crazy not to. Alan sent his in the post, but actually sent me the wrong vocal the first time \u2013 he sent me the track but without the vocal on it (laughs). Bobby came down because he lives round the corner and he\u2019s a big Alan Vega fan and really wanted to do it.<\/p>\n So there must have been a lot of data to wrestle with, did this represent any problems to you? Yeah, it did take a long time \u2013 at least 3 years. That\u2019s partly down to the fact that I didn\u2019t have a deal so I was doing it all off my own back.<\/p>\n You\u2019ve remained on Wall of Sound; didn\u2019t they give you any backing? No. They couldn\u2019t see it at all. When I had taken it in there they were like \u201cwhat the fuck is this?\u201d It\u2019s hard out there, especially when you\u2019re an old git like me (laughs). Now it\u2019s like a package, then people can see it, but when you\u2019re schlepping round with a bunch of tracks on a CD people just don\u2019t get it. People like you who are going to write about it might say \u201coh yeah, it is good record\u201d, but, honestly, they haven\u2019t got a fucking Scooby Doo most of these people.<\/p>\n A lot of labels would welcome the sort of stuff you\u2019re doing. Really? Well put me in touch with them, cos it\u2019s only on license (laughs).<\/p>\n Are you a Pro Tools man? Both, Tools and Logic. Because I worked with these two ridiculous drummer\/programmers \u2013 one of them works in Logic and one of them works with Tools, and they both swear that the one they work on is completely superior to the other one.<\/p>\n Do you use a lot of hardware or is it mostly software-based stuff? Quite a mixture of both basically. I\u2019ve got a kit set up and old analogue synth; it\u2019s my favourite synth, which actually used to belong to Throbbing Gristle, a Roland SH5, which I pretty much use on every track. It\u2019s my favourite thing in the world and it\u2019s the only thing that I\u2019ve got going back that long because I\u2019ve sold everything else down the years. The bass lines are 99% from the Roland.<\/p>\n Now you\u2019ve also remixed over the years for the likes of Madonna, Peter Gabriel, and Goldie. Is this an area of production that you still get involved in often? Not as much as I\u2019d like to, because I really like remixing, I like that whole process. This is the reason for putting records out, it gets you a bit of exposure and then people come to you and give you remixes. I still keep my hand in, but it\u2019s not like people are beating down my door for remixes like they used to (laughs).<\/p>\n I\u2019ve often wondered, with these so-called “big name” artists, do you have total freedom to just disappear and put your angle on a track or does the artist or the label channel you into a particular direction? Well, they generally like to hear a version with the vocals, so what I normally do is give them that and then give them a version I like. But it depends on whether I like the vocal to begin with. But generally they want to hear some element of the song in it, and the bigger the artist the less freedom you get.<\/p>\n I understand you did a track with that old gangster, \u2018Mad Frankie Fraser\u2019, Revenge of the Mekon wasn\u2019t it? Yeah, that\u2019s right \u2013 he was really easy to work with. He\u2019s kind of like old school \u2013 trots about, I suppose after 40 years of prison you learn a little routine.<\/p>\n He did rapping did he? I don\u2019t know if you\u2019d call it rapping (laughs). He just sort of told various stories; then I chopped it up and added a menacing soundtrack.<\/p>\n What sort of music are you listening to in your spare time? I really like Justice, Klakons, and The Sunshine Underground. I like that band, The Knife?<\/p>\n What direction do you think music should be going in now? I think people now have got very broad tastes, which is reflected by iPod culture. You can\u2019t really say, right, I\u2019m gonna be a rock band and ignore dance music, people want to hear something that covers all the genres \u2013 that\u2019s what you\u2019ve got to give people.<\/p>\n In modern music there doesn\u2019t seem to be any scenes emerging from anywhere; like you used to have house, acid, techno, jungle, but in the last four or five years nothing at all. I\u2019m sure something will happen, because that\u2019s always like the best time, when it seems like nothing\u2019s happening. But something\u2019s bubbling up and a void\u2019s being created that everyone\u2019s just going to fall into. I mean I\u2019m hoping (laughs).<\/p>\n Do you ever get the impression that electronic music has become so sophisticated that it\u2019s reached an impasse and has to go backwards to go forwards? I think you\u2019re right yeah, I think it has to be pulled apart and destroyed, and to go backwards to go forwards people will have to become a bit more primitive<\/p>\n Be like Me Ten Miles High Another year rolls away and we are now in 2011. For the first \u00a0post of this new year I have chosen Zos Kia’s essential second vinyl release on the Temple record label run by Genesis P Orridge of Psychic TV out of his Beck Road base in Hackney. 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