1980 – Bob Short. Short extract from his book ‘Trash Can’

Eds note: this chapter concerns squatting in Campbell Buildings, Waterloo 1980

Doctor Death (not his real name) was about as bad an advertisement for five years worth of medical training as you could possibly imagine. It wasn’t so much the fact that he was a bad doctor . Whilst he was definitely crap in his chosen field, that was beside the point. It is just that you’d expect some kind of reward for that much work, wouldn’t you? Five years worth of sleepless nights on duty in a public hospital? Years of treating the great unwashed and washed alike? That has to worth something. You’d at least expect a receptionist and a car with the vaguest hope of passing its next MOT.

I don’t know who he’d pissed off in this (or some previous) life to earn his current lot but it must have been some unbelievably evil bastard. The judge’s gavel had fallen hard with a sentence that included a fleet of trucks worth of bad karma. Shit, we’ve all been there, done that and visited the souvenir shop.

Condemned by the local Health Authority to work a dingy basement surgery on a Waterloo council estate, he sailed ever closer to the day of his inevitable striking from the Medical Register. He had little to look forward to. There was the bottle of Sainsbury’s scotch in his bottom desk drawer but that was more of an everyday thing than a treat. Retirement looked good if he lived that long. In the meantime, from dawn to dusk, he received a steady stream of punk rock zombies craving Valium and Mogodon. At least, despite appearances, they didn’t want to feast upon his living brains.

I was not really interested in his problems because I had enough of my own. It was a quarter past eleven on a Friday night and I was wondering whether I dared put my penis in Doctor Death’s hand. I’m sorry but I had to give you a little heads up about his medical standing and the dangers such an act might involve before I got on with the details. Standing over the toilet, inspecting the tell tale signs of newly discovered venereal disease, it was a decision that I, myself, was not taking lightly. There was the clap clinic at St Thomas’ of course but last time I went there, the blood test had revealed a large and diverse range of pharmaceuticals. So large and diverse in fact that the attending nurse had loudly introduced me to all and sundry as the walking chemist shop. Such familiarity is rather inappropriate in such settings but she was cute as far as nurses go. The cutest nurses always work the clap clinic. It is the one place no-one seriously tries to pick you up.

The doctor confirmed the nurse’s diagnosis and assured me such variety of substance abuse represented something of a record in his experience. Not realising this was a bad thing, I was quietly pleased at such recognition . Don’t tell that to anyone. A good drug fiend has a reputation to uphold but it should be spread in whispers.

My main problem with the staff of that venerated institution was that they liked sticking that horrible umbrella thing up the eye of your cock and giving it the kind of good hard scraping that is difficult to forget. A quarter century on and the wince is still there. I still clench my teeth at the memory. If you thought the burning sensation you experienced due to the disease was bad, here was a procedure that would have you contemplating celibacy as a serious life option for at least several days. You have to admit that several days is a long time to consider celibacy.

The other disadvantage with the clinic was that it wouldn’t be open until Monday. The sooner I got onto those antibiotics, the sooner I’d be able to fuck again. The way my dick looked, I didn’t even want to touch it myself so a wank was out of the question.

I knew that I had to deal with the problem and I had a fair idea that I could just demand penicillin from the Death dude and he would oblige. His bedside manner was generally restricted to the phrase “What do you want?” His pen would already be quivering atop the prescription pad in bored anticipation. He positively groaned when presented with an ailment that you didn’t know how to treat yourself.

The trouble would come if he suddenly decided to take his hypocritical oath seriously. (I’m sick of writing sic.) Alcoholics can be so damn unpredictable. Doctor Death could suddenly become overwhelmed with quiet sentimentality towards his patients. Paternally, he would turn to you and tell you that he wouldn’t feed his dog the crap that he was scripting out. I doubted he had a dog or at least not one that hadn’t died of neglect. I figured that he sometimes just liked the company. He had once decided to stare into my inner ear for a good twelve minutes for no apparent reason other than my request for sleeping pills. Maybe he was just checking if I had any brain left in there to damage.

What if he reached into that tattered plastic holdall he carried in lieu of a black leather bag? God only knows what he kept in there. What if he pulled out some rusty hooked device of his own design? I imagined the good doctor downing another healthy swig of whisky whilst trying to work out which one of my dicks he should plunge one of his bent coat hangers into. It was not a thought to inspire confidence.

My course of action was clear. Tomorrow, I had to see the doctor but remember to keep one eye on the door in case he asked me to take my pants off. In the meantime, I had to take lots of downers and try to remember not to fuck anyone. Normally, that would be easier said than done but there was the whole question of how I’d managed to get myself into this situation again. That had not raised my stakes in any of the major popularity contests. The queue to my bedroom door was noticeably thin.

 I had met Toni under rather unusual circumstances. Waking up on the toilet to find a strange girl pumping some unknown chemical into your blood stream cuts through all those usual social niceties one expects by way of introduction. Apparently, she thought I was cute but urgently needed some kind of a pick me up to awaken me from my drug induced stupor. A syringe full of what I can only assume was sulphate certainly caught my attention. My introduction to intravenous drug use thus came unexpectedly and unasked for. Don’t let me try and convince you that I was complaining. I was out of my fucking gourd. Besides, it was a good lesson about not falling asleep in the toilet with the door open. I mean to say… anything could happen and it probably did.

Things had taken a fairly predictable course from there. Within an hour, she had climbed over a fifth floor balcony and threatened to throw herself upon the cold hard courtyard below. In a voice that quivered with existential angst she proclaimed the world cruel and bemoaned the fact that nobody loved her. Well, that was a feeling I at least understood on some level and, not having had sex for a fortnight, my testicles felt swollen like watermelons with backed up sperm. It all made a quiet kind of sense at the time. Who says the age of romance is dead?

The next morning, she scarpered early because she thought her boyfriend would probably be worried, Toni, or Puke as she preferred to be known, strapped on her Docs and headed back to the wilds of Kennington. Unbeknownst to me, I had just secured another black mark against my name in the eyes of the Campbell Buildings sewing circle. It was bad enough that I had copulated outside of the group but no-one had pointed out to me that Toni was only fourteen.

With such a large group of reprobates gathered in such close quarters and with so little to do between ponced cigarettes, gossip was the order of the day. Cliques, sub cliques and secret societies blossomed. An anthropologist would have had a field day.

The sewing circle was a loose collective well known for its member’s skill at needle work of one sort and another. They were the princesses of the block, the in-crowd, the squats’ equivalent of a cheerleading squad. They would squeal with delight if you liberated stock from the local off-licence or illegally rigged their electricity supply. But they were fickle in their favours. They had the skills to cut enemies to ribbons with the sharpest claws south of the river and they weren’t afraid to use them. What good is power if you never use it?

It was easy to fall from grace in a shifting moral landscape. I had initially fallen foul of the sewing circle because I snogged Evelyn under the kitchen table one night. Cold shoulders, tongue lashings and cries of “unclean” taught me that it was one thing to have Crass records and go to Rock against Racism gigs but that didn’t give you the automatic right to kiss women of colour.

Such concerns had not occurred to me. I just liked the way Evelyn hid the most beautiful pair of eyes behind the nastiest pair of granny glasses that the National Health could supply. In her green plastic sandals worn over pink florescent socks, she was strange and other worldly and thus reminded me of me.

I thought racism was the preserve of skinheads and the mentally sub normal. Swastika shirts were ironic rather than iconic. Skin colour had as much significance as eye colour in a world of rainbow hued hair dyes. Of course, I lived in a world where bald headed boys with home made British Movement tattoos listened exclusively to Jamaican records. The nation’s morality reeked of insanity. If any proof were needed, the recent election of Margaret Thatcher underlined it. If I couldn’t follow the rules it was simply because the rules made no sense.

Once again, the news was out all over town. I had been a very bad boy.

This moral outrage did not stop the sewing circle adopting an under aged runaway of their own. This sweet young thing clearly idolised the shop lifting pink Trojan mini-skirt lifestyle and all those who walked it in sharp stiletto heels. She would have crawled across hot coals in a bid to fit in so that is exactly what they made her do. They named her Tea, not through rhyming slang acknowledgment of criminal skill but because it became her duty to make that beverage on request. That along with any other household duties required, demanded or merely dreamt up in a fit of casual sadism. I first met her on her knees as she attempted to scrub a bathroom floor with a nail brush. I suggested she rebel against this task but she feared the consequences. They might not take her thieving later. Lincoln had freed the slaves but not in beautiful downtown Waterloo.

Campbell Buildings was a sprawling between-the-wars estate that Lambeth council wanted demolished to make way for a bus terminal. Quietly, it was probably policy to turn a blind eye to the hundred or so punks who had squatted in the interim. There were a lot of hard core lefties in the Lambeth administration who believed all the homeless should be housed and took this as an ideological stance. It was, however, the pragmatists in the regime who finally reigned. For them, we were a way to save money. It was good we made such appalling neighbours. The existing tenants who had previously held out for the better deal to which they were entitled were suddenly none too fussed about which new hovel they were transferred into.

There was also the advantage that it was cheaper to leave us where we were rather than build a brand new state-of-the-art prison facility. That could wait until the new Tory Government provided funding to open up the internment camps. In the meantime, we were free to make our own Abaddon which is exactly what myself and the others did.

Despite my unkind words, the sewing circle was not wrong all of the time. Sleeping with fourteen year olds is never clever especially when they are fourteen going on fifty. Listen boys, you don’t need a degree in psychology to guess at the traumas you’re complicating when you go there. That said, the squatters of Campbell Building were all fucked up one way or another; literally, figuratively and most often both. We sought comfort not just in the arms of strangers but with anyone who would have us.

The sewing circle was also right about not sleeping with people outside the immediate vicinity. My newly festering penis was ample testimony to that. 1980 was a different world of course. Condoms were the weapons of choice for disgusting old people raised before the contraceptive pill. AIDS was not even a blip on yonder horizon. Disease was defeated and we all lived better through illicit chemistry. We could be the generation who lived fast, stayed beautiful, never died and never grew old; a veritable army of Peter and Petra Pans. It was a grand scheme until its inherent follies were exposed.

Scarecrow had been the first to die. Loaded up on sleeping pills, he went up to the roof for reasons unknown. He might have been bored, depressed or just needed a minute to himself to watch the moon come up over the buildings. Who knows why any of us do anything? He either overdosed or fell asleep and froze. We never found out which. By accident or design, it was a sad and lonely passing. In the morning, the police played a game where they threw tiny stones at his open mouth to see who could score the first point. Grief spilled out onto the courtyard below but the authorities had marked out their patch with strips of Metropolitan Police tape, He belonged to them now.

From that moment on, death watched over us with an icy gaze. It was capricious but it would not be denied. Parents came to reclaim bodies, cut hair, choose suits and re-brand with long abandoned names. Their control, thought long lost, won out in the end. These prodigal sons and daughters found repose in the leafy suburbs and towns from whence they thought they had finally escaped. They had found their little piece of England whether they liked it or not.

The ghosts of those we knew and loved were never laid to rest. No graves marked the names we spoke. Their stories were wiped clean and altered as if Jesus was a real person and he himself had washed and forgiven them of their sins. History is always written by the victor and the battles we waged looked all but lost.

The world was dark and that darkness was rising up against us. It was chucking out time on Friday night at locals across the land; the most dangerous hour of them all. The blackest of hearts were granted courage through alcohol but now found themselves ripped from the nurture of the publican’s breast. Angered by these severed ties, the well worn path between boozer and council flat were littered with half eaten curries, bad intentions and the bodies of unwary travellers.

We were held up in a ground floor flat. The council had boarded up the windows and we left these four ply sheets in place not merely through laziness but also for defensive purposes. Even sunlight was our enemy now. The only access was through the front door and, even there, precautions had been taken. Bolts, locks and chains merely offer psychological defence for those who believe their safe European homes to be their castles. In reality, these devices fail all too readily at the first hint of serious attack.

In all the flats, we removed the kitchen doors and propped them up at forty-five degree angles against the front doorways. This was the kind of defensive installation that allowed you to catch several winks of wary half-sleep if you kept one eye open. Well, it did if it was used in conjunction with a bucket load of downers and a strategically placed blunt instrument left under the mattress. The claw hammer was the Teddy Bear of our new generation.

Though we took many chances, in this we took few. Attacks were common and we didn’t take any chances by offending any deities. Charms and amulets began to proliferate along with spells, talismen and hexes. We weren’t fussy about Pantheons. We made a new voodoo from our superstitions. Certain pavement cracks were avoided whilst walking, matches were always snapped after third light and hats were kept far from beds. Various items of clothing were deemed to be lucky and were thus worn until they rotted from our skin. The line between mental illness and religion is a thin one. Once you convince another of the truth of your lunacy then all doubts are cast aside. Convince a few more and you can start picking up tax deductable donations.

It was a boy’s night in and pickings were scarce. We collected our dole on Thursday and the cash had gone the way of dreams. It had vanished with the dawning. We spent the night with prescription drugs, talking and smoking Benson and Hedges cigarettes. The floor was a gold field of abandoned packets.

There was Cory Spondendce and Quick Phil, Two Tone Steve and me. Fat Phil was off sulking in the kitchen or some other dank corner. He had been pretending he was in a time warp for the last few days and this attention seeking had become rather tiresome. Cory had suggested he go and fuck himself – but not anywhere that we could see him doing it. There were certain things you had to specify in Campbell Buildings. Self help books addressing boundary issues were at least a decade off.

Others came and went over the course of the evening. Ruthless and Jessica asked if we wanted to go to the Marquee and see Cowboys International. As if. There was a group who played no part in anybody’s top ten thousand must-see bands list. Pinki and Blowjob made a visit to inform us they were up to no good somewhere. It involved a group of the local estate lads and we thought it better not to know any more before the event. We’d certainly hear all about it in explicit detail later. That went without saying.

A portable record player spun an endlessly repeating loop of Siouxse and the Banshees singles. After they left the charts, top forty records tended to end up in the local newsagency at forty nine pence a pop. That put them within our price range unless, of course, the sales assistant wasn’t paying too much attention. The discount then grew to be five fingered.

I had been in better moods. Frequently. Life was going the way life tends to go the minute some fool claims that things couldn’t get any worse. Some people have so little imagination that it is scary.

I had only just got up to take a leak when I discovered my symptoms. You don’t need to know the foul details but, suffice to say, if you’re one of these people who believe in divine retribution then I had proof positive that yours is a vengeful God. If I needed any more proof then it came in the form of the commotion at the door. The alarm was raised. The Scousers were coming.

Hang on a second. Who the fuck were the Scousers? Much like primitives who choose to live under the shadows of volcanos, we had set up home at the nexus point between a Mod pub, a Rockabilly pub and a Greaser’s pub. In all fairness, the Greasers just sat around listening to Deep Purple albums but anyone who could do that had to be twisted in some kind of sick and evil way. One had to always quietly suspect the worst. To top that off, skinheads were free ranging ubiquitous troublemakers and Mad Dog’s Faginesque punk troop could also be counted upon to make unwanted intrusions. We couldn’t have planned it better if we tried.

Who were the Scousers? Even if you religiously read NME, in tribal London there were hip fashion trends that could rise and fall in an afternoon. A vague image formed of cleaver wielding Liverpuddlian mop tops serenading us with such ditties as “I want to hold your hand” whilst hacking away at various parts of our anatomy. Stranger things have happened in the big town.

Of course, it could have been a glue sniffing flashback too. Stranger things than that have also been known to happen.

There are a whole lot of theories about why people watch horror films. Some will tell you that horror films desensitise the viewer so that they may overcome their fears and learn to face the horrors life will inevitably throw their way. Others claim this desensitisation leads to sociopathic behaviour and the breakdown of society as we know it. Thus, these latter critics claim, that horror films should be banned accordingly. I think that is all a crock of shit. I repeatedly went to screening of George Romero’s “Night of the Living Dead” because it provided me with a range of educational insights into the kind of situation I had just found myself in.

The main thing you learn from a horror film is that when you do something stupid then you tend to die fairly early on in the piece. If you do something unbelievably stupid you will be lucky just to see out the opening scene. As is so often the case, fact proceeded to follow fiction instinctively. Emerging from the toilet, I discovered that the front door was wide open and everyone was running to the back of the flat. The fact that there was nowhere to go back there didn’t seem to be occurring to anyone at the time. The messenger had been let through the barricades only to see them abandoned in the ensuing panic. This was turning into a frigging bloodbath without even trying.

I focussed my fear on the problem at hand. I was not in the mood for bashings, beatings murder or rape. These things would not bring a perfect end to a perfect evening. I got the door down just in time to hear the first bangs of fists on the wood outside. Sam Raimi couldn’t have timed it better even if he tried. Actually, he did try in the first Evil Dead film but he couldn’t cut his timing any closer to what I’d just pulled off. Now all we needed was a soundtrack by Goblin and we’d have something that would put bums on cinema seats.

An undecipherable blur of drunken accents began to howl something that probably amounted to assorted threats and abuse. Scousers my arse. Drunken Irish builder’s labourers more like with enough Poteen in their bellies to present a fire hazard. They lived over in the next block but I had no idea what their beef was. In life threatening situations, it is often better not to know as there is little time to ponder life’s little absurdities.

“Little pigs! Little Pigs! Let us come in!”

“Not by the hairs on our chinny chin chins.”

That’s about as good a translation as I can really give you. The words were all different but I think I captured the spirit of the piece. The huffing and puffing that followed seemed a little more forceful than simple exhalation. These guys were putting their shoulders into their work big time. I was putting all my weight down on the buttress and still I bounced up with every heave ho. I looked around for the nearest large heavy object.

“Phil! Get your fucking fat arse over here!” I demanded with the kind of voice Marine Drill Sergeants use in the movies.

Fat Phil preferred to be called Phil Free for obvious reasons. However, no-one really wanted to take him up on that particular implied offer. Being told to feel free does not, by definition, demand obligation.

There was, however, a duty to differentiate between him and Quick Phil. We called him Fat Phil because Slow Phil would have been even more insulting than our eventual choice. Besides, he was not merely big boned. He had, despite the most meagre of rations, still retained sufficient padding so as to cover up the fact he was big boned. In addition, he wore the kind of coat that Uncle Fester would only wear in the depths of a Siberian winter. With his thick black eye make-up he looked like a vaguely satanic panda. Satanic Panda Phil would have made an ideal rechristening if not for the fact that it was too much of a mouthful.

“No,” he replied. “I’m scared. They’ll hurt me.”

I felt like slapping him around myself at that moment. My fear had bought out a cruel streak from deep inside. I went with the feeling even though he was a friend who was already close to tears. I could tell you that I spoke for the good of the group but part of me meant every word that I said.

“Listen to me, you fat pile of shit. If you don’t get you’re arse over here right now, you won’t have to worry about them because I will personally come over there and beat you to death myself.”

I must have been fairly loud and fairly scary because even the banging on the front door stopped. The room took on a deathly silence as Phil assumed the position. I glared around the room.

“Now, will one of you useless fucks get me a bloody hammer so I can nail the first cunt who comes through the door.”

Outside, there was a half hearted volley of abuse and a few random kicks to the door. It was all over bar this shouting. What was planned as a simple massacre was turning into something more difficult. Someone other than us might end up getting hurt. The assaulting force vanished back into the night as if they never were there at all. The silence just swallowed them.

The next morning, when the buttress was raised, the front door was shattered and torn from its hinges. Locks and bolts hung off of bent and mangled screws but most of the damage was invisible. It lay deep within us in a place where no investigative surgery, electron microscope or endoscopy probe could find it. It was the kind of damage we all take on one hurt at a time. It’s just that some of us take it harder than others.

There are many who will tell you that the rock and roll dream is all about fast cars, loose women, money and the kind of shit that money buys. In Campbell Buildings, we lived a dream all right – but it was nothing like the one advertised on the box. One can only wonder at how much worse the straight world must have been for us to not just choose the life we did but also to revel in it. Is it better to rule in hell than serve in heaven? To us it seemed better to just live in hell.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Bob Short claims he has not only heard the chimes at midnight, he has stayed up past dawn to hear them again the next time around. Before being old enough to drink, he haunted Sydney’s beer barns with proto punk band Filth. Later on, he gained some notoriety in the UK with the band Blood and Roses when he was described as everything from a “shambolic messiah” to a “long, tall streak of piss”. He has been a DJ and worked in a sex shop, the civil service and as Musical Director for a theatre company. He claims the only thing ever to surprise him was seeing his thirtieth birthday. Currently, he lives in exile in the penal colonies of New South Wales with his son, Billy. There he has makes low-budget films such as Makers of the Dead, Kings’ Cross Vampires, Lone Gunman Theory and Bad Animals. He is also working on a novel entitled “Red”.

Available from http://www.lulu.com/content/956220

555 Responses to “1980 – Bob Short. Short extract from his book ‘Trash Can’”

  1. Penguin Says:

    Hey Bob, nice read – wanna get a copy…

  2. alistairliv Says:

    Pinki used to recount her tales of Campbell Buildings to me.
    The ‘maggots under the carpet’ story was one… but if I recount it now, will put me off breakfast…

    I have ordered a hard copy of Bob’s book from Lulu- for £8.50 including post n packing.

    AL Puppy

  3. Sam Says:

    Hello Bob. You may remember me. I lived at Campbell buildings and lamped one of the policemen you mentioned on the morning Scarecrow died. I was also in the flat during the scouser raid and remember Phil sitting on the door too, though with a bored look on his face that made the gravity of the situation even funnier. Pork was there too, and someone was hastily improvising molotov cocktails using hairspray and milk bottles. I’ve toyed with the idea of writing about that time too. There was always talk that someone had to write a book and I’m glad you’ve done it. Very funny and tragic – the way it always had to be.

  4. Alex Ogg Says:

    Fucking excellent Bob.

  5. Sam Says:

    Just got this (and finished it) today. It’s too bloody short. I’d have loved to have read much more. Great bit of writing though.

  6. richpassivity Says:

    yep, I too have ordered this from lulu.
    Looking forward to getting it.

  7. richpassivity Says:

    Got this on Friday & read it in one sitting.
    Superb evocative stuff. Only complaint is that like Sam said it was over too quickly!
    Are Bob’s films available on DVD?

  8. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    One small point (fnaar fnaar):

    From http://www.samedaydoctor.co.uk/sexual_health.aspx

    “STD TESTING

    THERE IS NO NEED TO DO SWAB TESTS. MEN AND WOMEN MAY HAVE STD TESTS DONE ON URINE SAMPLES IF THEY PREFER. THE “UMBRELLA TEST” IS AN URBAN MYTH WHICH DOES NOT EXIST (Bradbeer et al; BMJ 2006; 333: 1287-1288).”

    But then I do remember Bob actually preparing a barrel of Nescafe instant coffee, popping a sharp on it, and banging it up his mainline so I am more than prepared to forgive him this small lapse of memory in his recollection of the clap clinic!

    Good Work Fella!

  9. Penguin Says:

    My knees just went wobbly Porker. Cheers.

  10. Mark M Says:

    The umbrella definitely exists….Never good with my memory but theres some things you never forget.Great writing Bob

  11. Nic Says:

    I know a couple of people who have strong memories of Ward 19 and the ‘Umbrella’ as well…
    Ouch!

  12. jahpork Says:

    I defer, on the brolly front, to your superior knowledge, gentlemen. I can only say that they never had one at St Mary’s clinic up in Praed St in 1979-80.

    Though they had a nurse there doing the injections who I bet was captain of the bloody hospital darts team!

    Nuff said!

  13. jellyfishinthebath Says:

    Hi Bob! You probably won’t remember me, but I bet you remember most of the following (which include a photo of you somewhere in amongst them, on the steps of the magistrates court at Highbury Corner I do believe) – including Pip, Phil, Cory, Lisa, Urk, Sue and many others (including me, Stewart, and my twin brother Andy). There’s also a video taken from a cine film I’ve uploaded to YouTube. Haven’t read your book yet, but I will… Hope life is good for you :) Anyone who DOES remember me is welcome to get in touch via jellyfishinthebath@yahoo.co.uk

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/21882620@N00/

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=IABnsIDer-0

  14. Bob Short Says:

    Dear Stewart, Of course I remember you! I seem to remember I bequethed you the Blood and Roses Marshall amp as a I left the wintery climes of Blighty. I’m very glad to actually hear that so many folk from the old days still walk the earth. I’ll check out You Tube soon.

    Dear Jah Pork Pie, I’m sorry that I can’t remeber who you were from the day. I can’t remember anyone called Jah Pork Pie – so I expect I know you under an alias. The Umbrella was real in Waterloo. Trust me. Also, I have never mainlined coffee. I appreciate the building of my Urban Legend but really, that would kill even me. I talked about it. I snorted it as a party trick but I never banged it up. I mention this in case impressionable minors should fall under the spell of this web page. I did not shoot up coffee. The proof of this is in the fact that I am walking the streets today without amputated limbs. Besides, Dr Manse (Ooops that was a real name) would give you plenty of stuff you could place into a syringe if you were that way inclined.

    Dear Sam,

    Of course I remember you. Fat Phil always looked like he was bored unless he had fallen into a time warp. This caused him to run around in circles screaming that he was in a time warp. As for the molotov’s, well I am not currently at liberty to divulge my role in the development of weapon’s systems that could be used in the advancement of terrorism. I can say that, once, during a police raid, there was a home made fire bomb and thirty tuinal sitting on my bed. The cops didn’t even notice!

    Thanks to all who have read and purchased the book. I seem to be constantly apologising for its slight page count but that was down to the demands of the publisher. I wanted it to be a frigging Steven King monstrosity.

    Love and Kisses from Bob

    kxv666@hotmail.com

  15. Stewart Says:

    Hmmmm…. Kevs from The Managing Directors must have fucking nicked that from me, then… Bastard! Good to hear from you Bob! (*winks*) x

  16. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Bob,

    The “Jah” is silent. It’s just pronounced “Pork” ;-)

    I used to play guitar in your band “Words are not enough”. The one with Beano on drums and Ruthless on bass.

    “Paradise (you’ll never know)”

    A minor, D minor, (repeat)
    F, G, A minor (repeat)

    …as I remember it – and all that. You showed me my first ever minor chord. The key of life hasn’t been the same since.

    As for the Nescafe thing, I can assure you that the urban legend was not of my making… I came up to Beano’s place and saw you with an empty barrel which you assured me had contained instant coffee 5 minutes before. I assumed from your somewhat excited and trembling demeanour that your veracity in the matter was not to be questioned.

    I can, though, say for sure that the hairspray bomb was my baby.

  17. Bob Short Says:

    Hi Pork,

    Haven’t seen you since that ridiculous incident with Cowboy Jock McDonald in Camberwell. Hope you’re okay.

    Okay, I think I’m beginning to see what happened here. All you had to say was Beano. Along with Dirk, we spent many an afternoon planning and executing ridiculous practical jokes. Who can forget Tuinol soup? The Ordeal of the Three? Teddy bears go Bahamas? Oh, how we laughed. I have forgotton Shooting up Coffee. PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT UP COFFEE. It will kill you or fuck you up big time! TEENAGE PRANK!!!!! All pretending. No coffee has entered my veins!

    I’m not really into going over the fine details of what happened twenty five years ago but I feel I must shriek this story down. Not because I’m embarrased about bad behaviour. I have behaved badly very often. I am a shit bag. I have drunk many a wine lake dry. I have done more drugs than your average metropolitan hospital. I don’t now but I have in the past. I have never shot up coffee. Sorry for any misunderstandings. But this would be a very bad idea.

    ON A different note, I really think everyone should have a look at Stewart’s beautiful film on You Tube. Okay, maybe I’m prejudiced, but it was such a piece of how we were. And Stewart, I cried when I saw Sue. It was just such a sad but glorious thing to see her walking around again. The funniest thing was seeing Pip looking like a baby. Back then, he seemed so much older to me than the rest of us.

    Finally, guitar nerds. Paradise chords.

    Em Emsus4, Em Emsus4,
    Bm Bmsus4, Bm Bmsus4

    G A

    Bm G A
    Bm G A

  18. Penguin Says:

    Sticking up some slices of Jake Heretic / Rich Kid / Baron Von unpublished book later on today. From what I have read it is not too bad an effort. Please look out for it, and leave some comments good or bad, hopefully good though!

  19. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Bob-> Yep, cheers for the chords mate: memory clouds after a few years of not having a guitar. It all comes flooding back like last night’s kebab in a hurricane now!

    Well, it’s hands up from me – that truly was a very convincing performance on your part with the coffee barrel. Intravenous caffeine would be very dangerous. I thought, reading your strong denial there, that you were going to say that the kids of today should play it safe and only fix up decaff ;-)

    And you’re right, that is a very moving film.

  20. Phil Says:

    Hi Bob really great to see you here.
    Fuck! I remember having a huge fix of Tequila and speed and going totally
    blind for about 4 hours.
    *Not recommend either*

  21. Stewart (jellyfishinthebath) Says:

    Yes, I think we’ve all shed tears…
    I can’t take credit for the film itself – I just edited it and stuck it up on YouTube, but I did so partly because I hoped if other people came across it, it would mean as much to them as it does to me – so I’m very pleased to be able to give people back a bit of such an emotional past and share in it, if that makes sense (didn’t phrase it very well…) x

  22. Phil Says:

    Its truly amazing that any of us are here to watch it 30 years on.
    When people used to go on about how crazy Trainspotting was all i could say was humm ..yes.
    Are you still in contact with Ginny Stu?

  23. Stewart (jellyfishinthebath) Says:

    Phil – yeah, I agree. Trainspotting – pah!
    I was in touch with Ginny until relatively recently. Unfortunately, I know through her kids that about 5 years ago she had some sort of stroke/brain haemmorhage that didn’t leave her in a very good condition at all – I don’t think the prognosis was very good. When I last spoke to her children (as I say, about 5 years ago) she was still alive but not able to communicate, and I am – very sadly – assuming that she has died in the meantime. On the other hand, I tried to contact her kids and all their numbers/addresses etc have changed so I don’t know that for sure, and they may well have phoned me to let me know if she HAD died ‘cos my number’s stayed the same. SO – not looking good, but can’t be certain.
    I made sure I credited Ginny on YouTube – without her, and her insight, and her ability to see what maybe we couldn’t see at the time, that film would never have been made. So, like I say, thankyou Ginny – we all remember you… x

  24. Rich Kid Says:

    It was you Bob who first planted the notion of not staying in the UK for the winter by suggesting Morocco.
    So i can blame you, for what followed.
    Cheers.
    It actually completely changed my life & that of my mates even more.
    People have been refering to this thread on ‘our’ thread but no fucker would tell me where.
    Brilliant bit of work Bob. Good on yer.
    Now you lot go & read my bit & say nice things about it…

  25. Stewart (jellyfishinthebath) Says:

    Yes, too many threads, too few compasses… (or should that be compii? ;) )

  26. chris Says:

    Apologies if i’ve been a dough-ball and missed this but where can i buy or order a copy of this book?

  27. Penguin Says:

    Try cutting and pasting the www. in the heading of the post Chris.
    They should still have some.

  28. Bob Short Says:

    Dear Rich Kid,

    Me and my fucking big mouth. I’d come up with a dozen dumb ideas a day and now I hear people actually acted on them. Morrocco? What was I reading – let alone thinking? Naked Lunch, obviously! Why, however, no one filled the Rainbow Theatre with Rice Bubbles is a bit of a mystery. I still think it would be fun to dive off the balcony into a pit of snap crackle and pop goodness. My more mature self would probably now include a scuba tank with the idea but I’m writing to the Lottery people. Surely they should sponsor such a worthy endeavour. Christ, I’ve seen some of the sodding films they’ve financed so they must be just chucking the stuff away.

    As for reading your thread… (what the fuck is a thread – please, no one answer this question. I can work out the answer for myself but what kind of a cake eater came up with that term) … I will investigate in the maze that it is Pet Puppy. Penguin sent me an e-mail telling me Stewart had placed a comment on this page under the clap clinic stuff. It took me three hours to work out what the hell he was talking about! Now, I have something new to hunt down.

    Dear Phil,

    Hey, man! How are you doing. I am just so glad to hear that you’re still here! Good news.

    Dear Chris,

    Lulu prints on demand. If you want it, they print it. That’s why my publisher put it up there. He couldn’t be bothered doing reprints.

  29. dave Says:

    hi i grew up at campbell buildings 1966-1980 bashed loads of punks between 1980-82 i drank in the duke of sussex and used to raid the squats for entertainment… afterwards all you lot was mugging and robbing people all over waterloo. bring back the old days

  30. Bob Short Says:

    Thank god for the British education system. It is amazing what they can teach to read and write these days. The good old days? Capital punishment. The birch. Conscription. Hey, mate. Will you be my press agent? Can you write something really abusive so I can include it on the cover of my next book.

  31. Stewart Says:

    Don’t even bother rising to the bait…

  32. baron von zubb Says:

    Bob I think ‘dave’ is being ironic. He aint from the buildings anyway.
    Dont know if anyone remembers ‘slug’
    well he DID grow up in the buildings opposite and his version of history is not Daves.
    I can’t remember any locals having probs with us. Only scousers.

  33. Bob Short Says:

    Perhaps more than Ironic. I don’t give a rat’s arse about this Dave. There were the scousers. There were the mods from the Hercules and the Rockabillies from the Castle. Shit bags, every one. And were punks innocent? There was mad dog’s mob from Kennington who raided the flats, mugged old ladies and one of them stabbed a cop up on the Cut. So, if punk was one thing, then we all share some guilt. BTW, I don’t believe punk was one thing and I’m certainly not queuing up for any additional guit or martyrdom. As for Campbell Buildings… There was arson, rape, theft and murder. There was enough violence for everyone and too much for me. I am fed up of shallow little fucks who are proud of their inhumanities. I don’t care about people’s backgrounds, social dysfunctions or petty excuses. I am sick to my back teeth of dickless wonders trying to big up the size of their own balls. I think a better world is still out there waiting.

  34. Sam Says:

    There were a couple of local lads who hung around. One, mysteriously was called ‘Olive’. I was at college in Waterloo in 1991 and took a little lunchtime trip up to the site of Campbell buildings. The only thing that remained was the front brick wall, still bearing the grafitii’d legend ‘Olive is Bent’. I still think this should be the title of the book.

    I wonder what happened to Mad Dog?

  35. alistairliv Says:

    He went out in the midday sun.

  36. dave Says:

    I know Olive! he’s a Dave too with the
    Adam Ant tattoo on his chest lol
    I remember a cop being stabbed outside the chemist shop down the lower marsh.

  37. dave Says:

    oh and for the barons info or slugs I was born in campbell buildings no 10 which was the front end nearest lambeth north, attended johanna school and most of us hung around munroe house and andrews chippy of course.
    p.s anyone remember the guy who chopped at his wrists cause his bird dumped him the name escapes me.

  38. baron von zubb Says:

    Well dave why dont you write abook about it? I’m sure it’ll be far superior to either bobs or mine, eh.
    And the question is if you were a punk hating local kid why the fuck are you on the KYPP site. Must be dull.
    Get this.
    Mad Dog became a social worker, for underage runaways, based up in West Hampstead but he lived on that modernist estate in Lisson Grove. Last seen in the early 80′s. In fact saw a few ex Kennington mob Joe etc (cant remember his punk name) at stonehenge in 1983/4.
    Dunno if this is old news to folk.
    Cheers BVZ

  39. david Says:

    you obviously believe your books to be good, not at all stories written by reminiscing over inflated egos.

  40. John No Last Name Says:

    I haven’t read BVZ’s book, but ‘Trash Can’ was a great read, so clearly some people do find them worthwhile. Now assuming David is the same person as Dave who posted earlier, the more relevant question is why do you feel the need to talk about people you weren’t friends with in this weird “remember me I may have tried to attack you, 25 years ago” way. Are you so devoid of friends that your only worthwhile memories from the past involve acts of stupidity and cowardice?

  41. Martin C Says:

    OK, serious query – does anyone remember a punk/skin called Chris? Might have had a nickname but squatted in Waterloo – had a bulldog and South London Skins on one cheek – two teardrops – all I know is he got on smack, then cleaned up by 1990, by which time he had two daughters (tattooed spiders on his arm with their names underneath, because they were scared of spiders, apparently) – I’d be interested to know how he ended up – and no, I wasn’t there, I was born in 1976, so I don’t have a clue what he was like ‘back in the day’. In 1990, he had grown out his hair.

  42. Graham Burnett Says:

    I too have grown out my hair, in fact I now have hardly any left…

  43. dave Says:

    john no last name – oh what a media tart you are… punk was designed for stupidity and cowardise…. no more no less

  44. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    I know we encourage a bit of nonlinear narrative and freeform prose on here, but did you actually mean anything by that last comment, Dave, or were you just typing randomly?

    By whom was punk designed for”stupidity and cowardise”, why was it so designed, and why so precisely?

    And if you’re really the punk expert I’ve been hoping to meet all these years, could you take the trouble to give me the definitive academic answer to what punk *was*? Most everyone else seems to feel that it was a movement which introduced pluralism and eclecticism to youth culture, and by so doing made itself very difficult to identify and define.

    Cheers in anticipation…

  45. dave Says:

    It was quite easy to define – musicians (loosely speaking) hiding behind songs of rebellion and change, rather than going out and making a difference. Getting others to make the change for you is cowardise.
    pluralism, i dont think so, as the views wasnt that diverse, it was more of a persons view taken and expanded. Punk was more or less a movement of egocentric bored youths (whats new) a modern version of rock n roll, mods, etc, punk was the same as all other musical inspired fashions, people trying too hard to be different!

  46. Ian S Says:

    “bashed loads of punks between 1980-82″

    So if you were born in ’66, you would have been 14 to 16.

    The only thing you were bashing then was your lonely little cock.

  47. dave Says:

    hmm we now have an age limit on being yobbish

  48. Ian S Says:

    Dave, claiming to have been a punk basher in your opening comments does not make you seem like Jack the Lad or a hard man.

    It makes you look like a lonely forty-something man with no social skills or mates.

    Try your luck again on the SE1 forums. Or maybe you have yet to discover the world of YouTube comments?

  49. Sam Says:

    “It was quite easy to define – musicians (loosely speaking) hiding behind songs of rebellion and change, rather than going out and making a difference. Getting others to make the change for you is cowardise.
    pluralism, i dont think so, as the views wasnt that diverse, it was more of a persons view taken and expanded. Punk was more or less a movement of egocentric bored youths (whats new) a modern version of rock n roll, mods, etc, punk was the same as all other musical inspired fashions, people trying too hard to be different!”

    I agree with that actually. As would Bob Short I would imagine and sums up in part the very self-deprecating tone of his excellent book.

  50. dave Says:

    thanks sam, and an interesting reply from ian which proves the point about egocentric punks, especially when they bite so easy trying to defend what isnt defendable. im no longer lonely now ian and i are friends

  51. Bob Says:

    I keep waking up to notifications in my inbox. I try my best to ignore them but they just keep coming. Should I wade in with my size twelve boots or would that be considered egocentric? I like the term egocentric. It is frequently used as a put down. However, the accuser commits the “sin” of egocentricity by definition. I think therefore I am egocentric. The idea that we shouldn’t assert ego is ridiculous. All art is a result of the flaunting of ego. The only way to not be egocentric is to do nothing. But let’s face it, even removing oneself from a society is an act of selfishness.

    As for the horror of young people acting egocentrically… You’re kidding, right? That’s what people do. I bet even Ghandi went to sleep on a cloud of smug every night.

    I can’t actually remember writing songs that demanded the proles rise up in revolutionary zeal. I always thought you freed your head and the rest just followed. I also thought that the cowardly act of getting someone to go off and fight for your ideals was really the job of governments.

    BTW, Dave, I may have grown up in a steelworking town at the very arsehole of the world, I may have never completed high school – but at least I understand that the rantings of a lunatic on the internet do not constitute proof of anything. And what exactly is this thing “what isnt defendable (sic)”?

  52. Sam Says:

    Oh well. I stand corrected.

  53. Bob Says:

    Hey Sam,

    Actually, I don’t think I did correct you. Correct me if I’m wrong. Yes, punk may have been the zeitgeist of egocentric youth or maybe it wasn’t. I just don’t think that makes it a bad thing. Age allows me a little self depreciation. Hey, I look in the mirror and there’s been a fair bit of depreciation over the years and none of it is tax deductable. Dressing up funny and thinking you could change the world, however, was never a bad thing.

    Boasting about punk bashing, well that’s a bad thing. Boasting about any kind of bashing is a bad thing. Pretending you are old enough to have bashed anyone, that’s just a dumb thing.

  54. Sam Says:

    No…I don’t think it was wrong either.

  55. baron von zubb Says:

    Oh i’ve missed all this.
    The net box is on line again so hello!

    “Dressing up funny and thinking you could change the world, however, was never a bad thing.”

    Absolutely.

    Cheers bob.

  56. dave Says:

    i agree dressing up isnt bad, if your a punk poser, chav or clown.
    punk bashing any bashing, yes i agree was a bad thing, but people do worse.
    having an age limit on fighting thats dumb. ask any football hooligan, most start around 15.
    boasting about having sex with a minor (14) thats just downright dumb!

  57. Bob Short Says:

    This isn’t a story about boasting about anything. It isn’t some heavy metal autobiography in love with bad behaviour for its own sake. This is a story about a group of kids completely isolated from decent society, falling into drug abuse and living under constant fear of attack from thugs. If you want to shout out for the rights of the thug then knock yourself out.

    This is a story about consequence. It is entitled 1980 to address the time. I’m not going to talk for everyone but to me 1980 was a tragedy. In 1976 and 1977 it was enough just to be a punk. It was an end in itself because it represented a change from that which had gone before. We rode upon the back of good times until we expected nothing but good times. But decadence leads to indolence. Where was the purpose? I spent a year off my head. It was my own personal season in hell. There were many people there with me. We pretended it was like a never ending party but, by the end, there was not a single person who’d want to return to Campbell Buildings to live like that. And Boast about it? Forget it. Call it a cautionary tale.

    What I learnt from Campbell Buildings is that you need to work towards your goals. I wrote songs like “the Tower Falls” about the realisation. “Love Under Will” was about the same thing. Moving away from decadent self destructive behaviour and pursuing purpose. I’ve done plenty of bad things in my life. I’m not proud of them. I don’t boast about them. Most of them, I did to myself. One thing I tried to avoid in the book was to make myself the hero of my own story. It was important to include unsavoury detail. “Trash Can” is a kind of hyper reality in which truths are rearranged to fit narrative. There are parts which are straight reporting and others which are not.

    Whatever. 1980 is about hitting rock bottom before reasserting purpose.

    Even now, the purpose I persue may be dellusional but any purpose is more important than no purpose at all. I may have dressed like a poser, a chav and a clown. I don’t give a rats arse about what you think about me. I’ve walked this earth long enough that I don’t need to worry about what someone like you thinks.

    The only reason why I wrote this response is that I wanted to make sure everyone who read the page above did not come away with a shallow interpretation of idle boast. The story 1980 is a horror story. A nightmare. I included it in the book to show what happens to the best laid plans of mice and men (or the barely laid plans of the same.)

  58. Sam Says:

    I can’t imagine a better piece of writing to represent that place and time. It is exactly as I remember it.

  59. Ian S Says:

    “having an age limit on fighting thats dumb. ask any football hooligan, most start around 15.”

    No, that’s a red herring. None of the ex-Campbellites here seem to remember trouble from little lads. Also, you or the person you are pretending to be has said elsewhere that he moved out of the Waterloo area around 1978 – not 1980 as you claimed above.

    http://www.london-se1.co.uk/forum/read/1/104982

    My guess is that you were a bit closer to the punk scene than you are making out. Otherwise you wouldn’t bother to post here or be resentful. Also, your style of writing is very similar to some hostile posts on a couple of other punk-related blogs, same attitude, same typo’s.

    Make your peace with the past and enjoy the present.

    Bob: second what Sam says above, some great writing.

  60. Sam Says:

    The aforementioned ‘Olive’ was pretty young – probably 15 or 16 when we knew him and went around with a mate of his around the same age. But he was a friend of ours and eventually kind of a punky-lad.
    Aside from anything else…the war’s over Dave. We’re all middle-aged and I’d say most of us here have examined our past enough to look at our earlier selves with a certain amount of bemusement. It must have been awful for the genuine residents of Campbell buildings, especially those with families. Us lot wandering around out of our heads, the constant violence and crime. It wasn’t like we were trying to build a utopian community. Scorched earth at best.

  61. baron von zubb Says:

    Gents I cant believe you’re getting into this with ‘dave’.
    And of course I can’t believe you all say Bobs writing is the best about the buildings… Sam,Ian: how very dare you…? He He.
    Nah seriously Bob and all, this guy comes on to the site to tell us how he loved punk bashing, thinks you’re a nonce of some sort and whatever else.
    He’s a fucking twat, no?
    No one here has to defend themselves in ANY WAY, not least to him.
    Has he come here to make new friends? Has he come here to be interesting?
    Dave, peace n love to all (middle aged) men but do us all a favour & crawl back into the hole you were in before you found the KYPP site.
    Sam, I agree that it must have been awful for the council tenants.
    But as far as I can ascertain it was, well before we arrived too.
    Hope all are fab in KYPP land.
    Talkin of KYPP-land, Pengs, are there any of Mr B’s second offering, the signed ones, still about?
    I must have missed them by now thanks to Tiscalli brilliance…
    Enjoy, J

  62. Penguin Says:

    Baron, all the signed copies are gone, sold at the KYPP spring picnic. I will no doubt get another load in at some point though. Why don’t you get one sent from Bob himself? Sure he will be happy to get one to you for a few squid.

    Lets not all get to out of control on this thread chaps, Baron you may well have lost a punter in Dave with regards to your book and the chapters held within.

    He seems generally interested in knowing about his and other folks past lives at the now demolished C.B. I can confirm that he is the guy on SE1 forum via the email details on the site admin on this site. The post on SE1 reads valid enough, just wants to see if anyone is about from them times.

    Obviously he has been googling C.B. in February, found and posted a comment on this site and then with the wave of enthusiasm went on the other forum.

    Dave, I am sure no-one means you any ill will, but you do come over a tad agressive in the first few comments.

    Some of these guys have tasted boot soup during 1980 in and around the area that seems to interest you. No doubt they were victims of various tear ups in other areas besides Waterloo.

    If you were involved in some of the problems at C.B, then whatever, hopefully you have matured a little by now, if you were a bystander while the older kids did the most of the booting and looting, then whatever, ditto above comment.

    Because you came out with a comment which was just full of statements, without any further indepth reasons or any possible regrets (if applicable) being included within that first comment, it got people’s backs up.

    If, on the over-hand you had found this forum and discussed your past within C.B. in a more constructive way to start with, including some instances of violence that you may have witnessed or partaken in yourself no doubt, and possibly some words about where you are now and how you have developed since those days, I am sure the ex C.B folk would have responded in a much warmer fashion, as they do on other posts on this site with other browsers.

    As it is, because of the way your comments have been written since the first rather unfortunate statement, it is clear, to me at least, that you have been pushed into a corner and seem to be just lashing out with your keyboard in what ever way you can, tit for tat on other folks reply comments, and vis-versa of course.

    Perhaps we should all start again and you could write a comment letting us know what it was like living at C.B in the late 1960′s through late 1970′s (pre punk squats). Or, of course, if you were there in 1980 when Baron, Bob, Pork, Sam etc etc were there (many other ex C.B inhabitants view this site, but do not necessary write comments on the posts so they may well be interested in what you have to write) then let us know about that period also.

    Was there any 1977 Jubilee parties on the estate? Was it a mixed race estate or a white working class stronghold?

    There’s two questions to get you started, assuming you want to continue commenting on this thread or indeed this site.

    Also for your information, both of Bobs books are well worth getting and the Barons one is OK too. Both books are available via links on this site if you are interested in reading anecdotes on your old stomping ground of Waterloo from their perspectives.

    Campbell Buildings is also liberally mentioned from a squat / punk perspective in two or three other posts on this site, featuring The Heretics (Sam, Sii, Baron and Scarecrow’s band).

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=639

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=751

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=800

    You will also see photographs of Baron and Sam on these posts above as they looked 30 years ago.

  63. dave Says:

    first of all i’d like to apologise for the first comment, totally unjustified. it was crass (excuse the pun). yes i do remember the 77 jubilee and the first wave of punks. yes i was a little thug after moving away. i came back almost every day causing trouble. i also remember seeing the clash and spex at the anti nazi rally. yes campbell blds was very a much mixed race community, and i think i’m a better person for it now. i also squatted there for a while when i was a skin, when bonner was there in tigers place (no 10 where i was born – spooky). unfortunately trouble caught up with me and i was banned from chelsea fc at 15, youth custody at 18 and prison and a ban from millwall fc at 21.
    now working in a hospital. still a little fucked up but finally doing good.

  64. Penguin Says:

    Jah Pork Pie is a Chelsea supporter I think for his sins Dave, I support Tottenham for mine. Being banned from seeing Millwall play surely is a good thing is it not? ;-)
    There is a bit about the Viccy Park Clash gig in Barons book, he also seems to have had his fair share of knocks from Officialdom including a (no doubt rather unpleasant) stay in some prison in Thailand. Reading his book gives me the impression that he was into fighting a fair bit in those days whether spanking fascists or nudging police overseers in the riots of 1981.
    A very naughty boy…
    Hopefully Baron will hard sell you his book now, you might even be in it!
    If he does not then here is a link:

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=1966

    and some original rough manifests plus stuff on the author:

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=822

    And for both Bobs books and some of his music from 1983:

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=474

    Ta for sharing.

  65. alistairliv Says:

    I heard about Campbell Buildings from two sources.

    Firstly from Bob Short when he was living in Stoke Newington circa 1981/2 and secondly from Pinki when we lived together from 1984 til she died in 1996.

    From neither source did I get anything other than the impression that living there was pretty much hell on earth.

    Bob and Pinki’s accounts of Campbell Buildings were very different from the stories I heard from Tony and Brett about their squatting days at Covent Garden – like the one about having carved model of a pigeon which they used to dangle out of a window on a piece of string to see if anyone would try to grab it…

    Likewise the hell that was squatting in Campbell Buildings should be set aginst the creativity that came out of Brougham Road and the west London squats like Frestonia. And don’t forget that the Centro Iberico was a squat which was pretty much the antithesis of Campbell Buildings.

  66. dave Says:

    i remember a lot of people squatting coronation buildings in vauxhall. the estate was a dead replica to c.b anyone have any thoughts on that place?
    the first wave of punks to enter c.b was at the time lambeth were rehousing the cb residents so i think a lot of flack the punks took was because the residents were pissed off with lambeth council.
    believe it or not cb before then was a good place to live with a thriving mixed community, everyone going to the same school across the road!
    dr m was a pretty good doc, i think the pressure from some of the punks just tipped him over. i can remember him being bashed and threatened constantly.
    having said that whenever i saw him as a young kid he always asked if i could beat up my mum and dad????

  67. John No Last Name Says:

    Once again Penguin with the peace pies, nicely done!!

  68. baron von zubb Says:

    Blimey Pengs. Its like good cop bad cop…
    Just to make it quite clear; i am always only joking when getting into literary spats of my own making – with Dr Bob
    Bob you have the craft and well deserved mate.
    Me, lets not forget this, I am only published by a bizarre set of coincidences that got me onto KYPP.

    Having said that…

    ‘”Joys Of Work’ what an incredable punk treatise..”
    The Sun.

    Bob I’d love a signed copy of your new one.

    Fill me in on how to sort it.

    Good point Al about other big squats that weren’t the hell what CB was.
    I can’t remember any of the tenement punk squats being any good, Kennington, Vauxhall etc.
    But the tenement in St Johns St that became H A was good place.
    P, please dont make me listen to Gong records again for missing the picnic & being lairy on the site …

  69. Penguin Says:

    There was a large squatted punk / crustie estate behind Kennington Tube that I witnessed some bands perform in the middle of the carpark / common ‘green’ areas that I can not remember the name of. A bit like a council estate version of Meanwhile Gardens. Protag used to do the sound from inside his van, as opposed to him sitting on the grass at Meanwhile Gardens.

    When was your book reviewed in The Sun Baron? Send me a scan I will add it to the Joys Of Work post.

    Dave, why was the good doctor interested in whether you could give your parents a slapping? Sounds an odd thing for a ‘professional’ and one of the bedrocks of any community to ask…

  70. Sam Says:

    But Bob’s toilet at Yoakley Rd has stuck in the public imagination as the worst ever. Quite a feat.

  71. luggy Says:

    Pengy, I reckon you’re thinking of the Pullens Estate.

  72. Penguin Says:

    Yeah Luggy, that’s the badger…cheers.

    Sam you know that Bob is working on a third book, specifially around the Blood And Roses era. Hopefully that toilet will get its own chapter. Remind me, is that the toilet where they pee’d and shat in plastic bags and then just dumped the bags over the garden wall to fester for weeks / months on end?

  73. Bob Short Says:

    I think one thing to remember about Campbell Buildings is that Lambeth Council were definitely playing a number on the residents. If we called the most Eastern Block with the 300 numbers Block One (the first to be demolished), then the council didn’t do much in terms of evicting squatters in Blocks One or Two in 1979/80. If you tried squatting Block Three you’d be promptly evicted. I think they used us as a tool to drive the existing residents into whatever new shit holes Lambeth felt obliged to relocate them in and the locals knew it. The residents frequently responded by just handing us over keys as they left.

    The rationale behind the demolition of Campbell buildings always sounded dubious. Building a truck stop for vehicles entering the channel tunnel? Last time I checked google earth it didn’t look like a truckstop. Socialist councils are always the most bent. That land would be pretty valuable and what if residents could have bought it under Thatcher’s proposed law changes.

    Dr Death was a weird old drunk but I don’t like to use his real name because that might still get him into trouble. Later on, he did have problems with punks threatening violence and (once again) I point the finger at a gang from Kensington ‘led’ by a future social worker. In reality, bottles of scotch were a much better and easier inducement than threats and menace.

    There has been some talk of my new book but I feel a little guilty because the postage is so high from Australia. To the UK, I’ve been letting them go at cost including postage. It depends a lot on numbers but it still works out between 16 and 18 dollars Australian a copy and I know that is pricey. Unfortunately that is cost. If you get one through the Independence Jones site, it’s going to be 16 plus postage. Most of you have my email if your interested. Actually, I think it’s on the site so it doesn’t matter. kxv666@hotmail.com

  74. dave Says:

    penguin – i haven’t a clue why the doc asked that question but everyone i know had the same experience he used to stand up like a boxer and ask if i could fight my parents and brother??
    on cb land they built cheap looking maisonettes which are a complete shithole now. the time they built them was when lambeth was buying property all over london, know doubt with huge backhanders – later there was an enquiry and i think heads rolled( apparently).

  75. Nic Says:

    Penguin – I went down to ‘Pullens Festival’ a couple of times in the 80′s, but the mists of time have made the memories a hazy blur (the odd Polaroid of a scene, and not much else: I seem to remember watching The Oroonies play, but could be mistaken)…
    Has anyone got any information that would help jog the memory?

  76. Penguin Says:

    I remember a gig there with Thatcher On Acid around 1987, or possibly earlier in 1986, that was stopped by the police running around the various flats ‘looking’ for someone on their wanted list or something similar. Saw one P.C. get kicked in the head from a punk boot flying out of a doorway on the second or third level up. That memory seemed to stick in my mind at the time (and since). Pretty sure I was wearing white socks that day…

    Dave, Bob, the inner city councils were well dodgy in those late 1970′s early 1980′s weren’t they? Thatchers dream and all that.
    Who was the left wing scouser council leader that got caught with his hands in the till, and who, in the 1960′s used to ‘hang’ with the Beatles and their entourage?
    The film ‘The Long Good Friday’ (co-incidently financed by a Beatle) is so good becouse it captures that period of time (the cusp of the 1980′s) so correctly, from demolisition of old docks and estates, right through to the bent councils. I can just imagine Bob Hoskins with a council rep freshly paid up in used notes, standing in amongst C.B. residents and squatters ‘persuading’ them to leave the area with a little back up party holding sawn offs parked up in Jags.

  77. dave Says:

    penguin – derek hatton is possibly the bent scouser. but let us not forget or could we ever red ken when he was leader of g.l.c. i also think it was chelsea who sung glc glc your full of shit pretty much summed that authority up.

  78. Sam Says:

    Wasn’t that Menace? And wasn’t the GLC Tory run at the time of the record?

  79. Penguin Says:

    Here you go Dave,

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=1474

    A surprising amount of tuneage uploaded on this site over the last few years inc this old gem.

  80. Ian S Says:

    “Dave, Bob, the inner city councils were well dodgy in those late 1970’s early 1980’s weren’t they? Thatchers dream and all that.
    Who was the left wing scouser council leader that got caught with his hands in the till, and who, in the 1960’s used to ‘hang’ with the Beatles and their entourage?”

    Penguin: You might be thinking of T Dan Smith of Newcastle council, he had a very high profile for a council leader in the 1960s. He started out with good intentions but became corrupt and was jailed for accepting bungs from architects.

    Dave wrote: “on cb land they built cheap looking maisonettes which are a complete shithole now.”

    The Peabody estates still look OK though, like the one on Blackfriars Road near the Obelisk end. They must be nearly 100 years older as well.

  81. Andus Says:

    Derek Hatton was a member of the militant tendency and Deputy leader of Liverpool city Council. He created a budget deficit in response to cutbacks from the central Goverment causing Liverpool council to go bankrupt. He was expelled from the Labour party. Neil Kinnock gave a famous speach about him during the Labour party conference which went something like this. ‘And you end up with the grotesque chaos of a labour council, A Labour council, hiring taxis to hand out redundancy payments.

  82. dave Says:

    sam – your right – k livingston was in 1981 – ian – peabody buildings i think are a trust but not sure – cb used to be railway flats so i think the council has a lot to answer for by knocking them down.

  83. baron von zubb Says:

    Erm, Sun reviewed?
    Yeah Bushell came out of his hole especially…
    Nah of course not.
    Oh damn I think that was my feeder line to post a spoof review.
    Sorry I missed that P…
    Dave I thought there was a 20 storey office on CB land?

    Cheers for link Bob.

  84. dave Says:

    haven’t been to waterloo for couple of years now but last time there was crappy maisonettes on the land unless they demolished them too…the only thing that hasnt changed is the afters in the sussex.
    i have a photo of cb if anyones interested in a copy.

  85. Penguin Says:

    My computer is being pimped to fuckery right now Dave. When I get the beast back I will email you personally re any photographs you may have of late 1970′s Campbell Buildings or folks living within said buildings. This is written on someone elses lump.

  86. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Well, haven’t *I* been sweeping the floor of the wider web while all you lot have been twirling round the dance floor in your crystal (Meth?) slippers on here?

    A few moments reading time is required before I get stuck in here, for the sake of decorum. Though having not slept, due to insufficient pharmaceutical mood stabilisation lately, I feel my less tolerant side may be about to put a few days’ graft in.

    Excellent…

  87. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Dave-> “It was quite easy to define – musicians (loosely speaking) hiding behind songs of rebellion and change, rather than going out and making a difference. Getting others to make the change for you is cowardise.
    pluralism, i dont think so, as the views wasnt that diverse, it was more of a persons view taken and expanded. Punk was more or less a movement of egocentric bored youths (whats new) a modern version of rock n roll, mods, etc, punk was the same as all other musical inspired fashions, people trying too hard to be different!”

    Who were these homogenous and monomaniacal musicians then Dave? I’ll give you a free hit here by not straying too far from big bands signed to big labels, or what even “Sounds” would have defined as “New Wave”, let alone “Punk…”: Did it include: The Slits? The Damned? X-Ray Spex? The New York Dolls? Crass? The Ruts? Penetration? 999?

    All identical in image, message, sound, method, origin? If not, then yes, punk was pluralist. Of course it was. It was a bunch of people who didn’t want telling what to do, who just wanted a space to have their own little abilities celebrated for what they were. Or, at least, not have their heads kicked in for being uppity and not settling for whatever hierarchy they were at the bottom of had in store for them.

    I presume that you never bothered to talk to anybody who celebrated being ostracised. Because the first thing that any of us learned was that change was good and revolution was bad. Revolution implies turning the status quo on its head… putting those on the top onto the bottom and putting only those who agree with your own weltanschauung onto the new top. We didn’t want a new top – and I use the word both figuratively and literally. We were fed up with being fucked. A large percentage of the people squatting at CB initially were on the run from abuse, be it: being fucked by nonces at home, getting the shit kicked out of them for being different in their own areas, being women who’d been fucked by abusive males; being on the lam from various institutions who wanted them back, and more.

    If there was a meeting of minds, it certainly wasn’t “a person’s view, taken and expanded”, it was a thing of beauty which resulted from us finding safety in numbers (apologies to The Adverts). It meant that we were free to sit in those flats of a night and disagree with each other while still rattling away like the frightened but optimistic little cunts on speed that we were in order to try and make our opinion as valid as anyone else’s. “Egocentric bored youths”? We were too scared to be egotistic. We didn’t know who was going to get us next and how they were going to go about it. Being amongst other people who thought that life under heavy heavy manners was shite and the fact that there might be a way that we could make the fuckers lay off all of us and allow us to blossom in our own sweet way gave us the luxury to develop egos. It also gave us the caveat – which is ignored by many previously oppressed people around the world today, no names, no pack drill – that if were all allowed our individual freedoms then we should never deny anyone else theirs.

    Mods? “Modernists”, weren’t they? Hmmm, convergence rather than divergence of opinion… Utilitarianism too, when it came to the rockers, I seem to remember. While the Mod thing (and for that, see Modernism generally) may have come from the very best intentions and purest roots (see “Absolute Beginners” perhaps?) I think one doesn’t need to look much further than nuclear weapons, council tower blocks, fossil fuel, 1980s clothing/haircuts and, of course, the great Modernist project that Bonner’s mate Mr Hitler set in motion in order to differentiate that from the people that you (may or may not have) kicked in in 1980.

    [pauses for breath]

  88. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Dave-> “musicians (loosely speaking) hiding behind songs of rebellion and change, rather than going out and making a difference. Getting others to make the change for you is cowardise.”

    Here’s one perspective…

    It gave many people after 1976 the impetus to go out and pick up an instrument or sing their lungs out. Because they knew that they could. Nobody I knew was interested in saying the same things that the Clash or the Pistols had said. The medium of expressing thoughts, anger, ideas, art or anything else you wanted became available to Joe Public. Whether it was talking/singing/shouting about shit drugs, shit housing, shit politicians (and weren’t Menace fucking awesome?), shit people beating you and your mates up because you were black/female/gay/mental or whatever, you were allowed to do it. As long as you weren’t looking to make a million dollars out of it or get laid. Because there wasn’t any of that stuff to go round. We used to go to gigs in the back rooms of pubs, in youth centres, anywhere there was a drum kit and a couple of amps. Because it was (a) exciting to see a new band play and (b) it gave someone who might not otherwise have had the neck to say anything the chance to get up and shout.

    The change that was made by the first wave of punk bands was to make music more accessible. That was a serendipitous side-effect of what they were saying: neither brave nor cowardly – it’s valour-neutral. None of the bigger bands wanted us to get up there and do what they were doing…. why would they? They did not ask anything of us other than to get up there, which we did (I know a number of people who became millionaires through running rehearsal studios in the late 70s/early 80s!). If you weren’t involved in it, then maybe you have a different perspective on it. I am a mouthy fucker to this day because of it. I was such a quiet little kid beforehand.

  89. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Baron-> I was up CB the other week (went round the Imperial War Museum with Chels). Where block 1 was is now a crappy multi-storey businessman-type hotel (where Sam legged it onto the 159 that time). We went round the back and there’s a square of council places there. Not bad little gaffs – just not my sort of thing I guess as I’ve got used to living in Victorian flats after CB (still live in one now, though private).

    It was weird to walk round there with Chels: having to stop every few yards and say “this was where so-and-so happened”, because she knows every one of the stories and all of the characters so well (though she did ask me the other day why I’m quite as careful with Scousers as I still am, so maybe she hasn’t paid that much attention).

    I still dream of that place a lot, very vividly. Few of the dreams are pleasant. But, thankfully, the dreams are only about what we did to ourselves and don’t involve those who weren’t strong enough personalities to surface until 2009. Let’s face it, there was deeply bad self-inflicted shit going on there after we realised the simple truth that nobody could be as bad to us as we could.

    On a lighter note, the one thing that the whole CB experience did do for me was to prepare me for the grief that was to come later in life when my daughter’s rabbit died. I know she was only 4, but I think she thought I was a right hard bastard! Job done.

  90. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Andus->

    Kinnock, Hatton. Reptiles both.

    Kinnock still has his hand in the Eurotrough I think. I can’t believe that so many people had their hopes invested in Kinnock and Meacher as the Socialist Dream Team in the 1983 election.

    Hatton, if you can believe it, is a property tycoon living in Cyprus. Here is a first for me… I’m posting a link from the Daily Mail (I think Hatton has made sure his Wiki is kept nicely trimmed)…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1120184/From-Leftie-Loadsamoney-How-Derek-Hatton-millions-dodgy-property-deals-Cyprus.html

  91. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Pengy-> Re: Hoskins etc…

    I dunno whether the Old Bill at Kennington nick were bent at the time (wouldn’t have surprised me at all though). They *were* bastards though. I remember the sergeant there telling me, when I had the temerity to complain after being nicked for the murder that Crap went down for, that it was a good job the pinkos had got rid of hanging or my feet would have been 6 foot off the ground by the morning. I was just about 17 at the time. I hope he has had a chance to reflect on that over the years.

    I walked past there the other week. I note that they’ve got a wheelchair ramp now. Nice. “Welcome to Kennington Police: we give you a kicking whether you’re a raspberry ripple or not. Equal Opportunity fascism.”

  92. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Sam-> “But Bob’s toilet at Yoakley Rd has stuck in the public imagination as the worst ever”

    Maybe, mate. But I clearly remember Leigh rushing into your room at 66a while you were showing me a guitar riff on the old SG and shouting maniacally “Sam, Pork, come and have a look at my monster log!!!!”

    I can say now that at the time I had no fucking idea what he was talking about until I saw the evidence damn near sticking up over the top of the seat!

    Was that during Leigh’s vegetarian period? I’ve eaten some pretty bad food over the years but my output has never got anywhere near that skyscraper of a stool.

  93. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Bob-> “The only reason why I wrote this response is that I wanted to make sure everyone who read the page above did not come away with a shallow interpretation of idle boast. The story 1980 is a horror story. A nightmare. I included it in the book to show what happens to the best laid plans of mice and men (or the barely laid plans of the same.)”

    Mate, I think you’ll find that you’re a fine writer and nobody is gonna come away with a false impression of what it was then – or who you are now. Anyone who doesn’t get the self-deprecation isn’t gonna get any of the other stuff either and as such isn’t worth considering when you write.

  94. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Bob-> “I think therefore I am egocentric”

    **I WAS, AND THEREFORE I THOUGHT, EGOCENTRIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!***

    But now I realise I was putting Descartes before the hoarse.

  95. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Baron-> “Mad Dog became a social worker, for underage runaways”

    Now THAT is the best news I’ve heard in ages. He was a funny, cool fucker and that’s the perfect job for him.

  96. Penguin Says:

    Welcome back Jah Porker…it’s been far too long!

  97. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Cheers Pengers, lovely to see you all in good voice.

  98. Penguin Says:

    Thanks to Dave S for the photograph of Campbell Buildings which now heads up this post.
    I tidied the post up as well so old Bob can shift some more books hopefully!

  99. Sam Says:

    What a shot!

    “Norman Stanley Fletcher…..you are an habitual criminal…..”

  100. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Fuck, that picture has just sent a shiver down my spine.

  101. Bob Short Says:

    Home Sweet Hell

  102. andus Says:

    Jesus, What a terrible building, looks like Dracula’s castle ! Colditz ! The ministry of love. Someone should have spray painted Ingsoc on it.

  103. Phil R Says:

    Creepy…Like a Prision Block…Forgot it looked like that!

  104. baronvonzubb Says:

    brilliant pic.
    what a great life. and the soup kitchen …
    So why would anyone trade bondi for bayliss rd then??
    And i said bob if you’d never mentioned ‘morroco for the winter’ it would never have entered me head to get outa blighty.
    still no net at home so not much from me till its done. Sam i owe you a reply on our old thread – still going!!- about the states.
    hello to all.
    J

  105. Phil R Says:

    Hi J

  106. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    “yes campbell blds was very a much mixed race community, and i think i’m a better person for it now.”

    The twelve step recovery programme has obviously been a raging success. Was it achieved through mindless sloganeering and/or trepanation with a black & decker? Curious minds etc…

    “i also squatted there for a while when i was a skin, when bonner was there in tigers place (no 10 where i was born – spooky).”

    I hope no 10 had a visit from the exorcist before the bulldozers finally moved in. Maybe you could write a piece on glue and national socialism as an important ingredient in the maintaining of a beautiful atmosphere for Ideal Home mag. Throw in some predictable feng shui quotes, no fucker will know the difference.

    “Unfortunately trouble caught up with me and I was banned from chelsea fc at 15, youth custody at 18 and prison and a ban from millwall fc at 21″.

    Blimey. Most people have a Damascus moment inbetween. I see that you just went for a prolonged reptilian brain stem moment punctuated by errr…some more reptilian brain stem moments.

    “now working in a hospital. still a little fucked up but finally doing good.”

    So you do the full shift before knocking off the hospital pharmacy? Glad to see a sense of civic duty is finally entering your life.

  107. Penguin Says:

    Thanks for the comment Kerr Ray Z, do not think it was a particular helpful one though. Dave has apologised for actions that he may have participated in thirty years ago at C.B, and for the way he flippantly wrote his opening comment. I asked him to write some more on multi racial issues / some background on himself and the estate etc so the old dwellers of C.B. could discuss memories about that place / era in a more pleasant (?) way than they were doing previously with Dave.
    He was brutally honest about his life in the comment that you have disected, and I do not think it deserves the piss taken out of it, specifically in the context of why he wrote it (ie I asked him to).
    You have added some epic and well written comments in the past on issues dating back to these times on separate threads and we welcome more from you.
    Just think in this case it was not called for, however witty the replies may be…Hopefully Dave will be cool, and he did send in THAT photo which heads the post which was helpful.
    BTW Are you the same guy who knew The Mob and the west country scene well in the late 1970′s? You sent me some material that was used on The Mob site that I also maintain?

  108. dave Says:

    fao kerr, nice post sounded a bit middle class social worker though. If your gonna give it some, at least sound offending.
    on a better note if anyone has early photos of crass i’d be appreciated if they could send some. dont know much about bob shorts band in early days can anyone let me know where i can download some music.

  109. dave Says:

    i agree to a certain extent jah porks replies but i would say that most people i knew got into punk or skin etc just because it was fucking cool to piss people off and not go with the flow. i stayed on a couple of road protest sites and found it amusing that the younger punks were listening to buzzcocks, slf, etc and thinking they were BAD!

  110. Penguin Says:

    Various Crass photos in the photo gallery Dave, just a matter of finding them! Bob Shorts early band I assume you mean the ones in Australia from 1976-1979 of which I have no tapes to upload. Loads of Blood And Roses on this site though, which was his main UK band from 1980-1986 or thereabouts. Perhaps I will ask Bob to see if the band he was in called Filth (which is heavily featured in ‘Trash Can’ and ‘Filth’ the second book) had any tapes or stuff released to be uploaded on this site.

  111. Question Bloke Says:

    What was it about CB that was so grim? Mainly the appearance, or were the flats rotting away? Were there people literally running around the stairwells stabbing each other during this time? I find this quite interesting and would like to know more….

  112. Penguin Says:

    If you read the extract in the post above, you will get one persons view of why it was so grim around that time before it was bulldozed. If you go to the ‘Obscure Chris Low’ post and ‘The Heretics’ post on this site (search for them using search function) you will also read various other ex CB squatters stories and opinions of living there at that time in the late 1970′s, very early 1980′s. Ditto (if memory serves) stories on punk squats at St Monicas Kilburn and Derby Lodge in Kings Cross.

  113. Question Bloke Says:

    Thanks for those links. I would really like to hear the ‘maggots under the carpet’ story though…and does anyone have any photos of the inside of the buildings / flats? Thanks.

  114. Sam Says:

    If only Michelle aka ‘Mitch’ could be found. She took photos regularly from 77 onwards including CB.

  115. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Hey, Mister Penguin, I got no probs with the fella or his lifestyle; past or present. But such hyperbole was screaming out for a cascade of smartarse remarks imho. And that unfortunately is the price you pay for honesty these days, especially with a cunt like me around. I also subscribe to the view (possibly sociopathic) that what is said and done on the internet is somehow not wholly ‘true’. Therefore any response is ultimately justified.

    I also work upon the assumption that any response too is ultimately a form of flattery. And usually is also indicative of some sort of shared cultural and social experiences. Maybe even similar psychological experiences. So if I was a bit cruel then it was merely myself figuratively slapping myself around the head and saying “Mr Fokker, that stupid fuckup you just dissed on that internet forum (btw your reply sounded a bit middle class social worker if you don’t mind me saying) really does remind me of a certain chap who appears in the mirror each morning around shaving team, you effing werewolf!”

    So, mea culpa.

    And fuck you, of course.

  116. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Yes, people died there. And other young, intelligent and optimistic people got fucked up to the point that they died later. It wasn’t a funny place and isn’t really a source of amusing dinner party anecdotes.

  117. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @dave-> I knew you reminded me of someone from CB, what with your dislike of young punks and your embracing of violence, domination and dodgy imagery. You’re really my lovely mate Ruth, aren’t you darling? I never got the chance to thank you for the loan of your skirt that time, or the use of your KY Jelly to do my mohican with.

    There’s no need to be bashful on here, ‘Dave’, just because there aren’t many other females around. Brandish your femininity and celebrate your hard-won right to be any kind of woman you want to be. You’ve earned the right.

    Lady Ruthless, I always thought you’d turn up amongst us on here. Weirdly, I thought you would have gone for an alter ego that was completely unlike your real self. Welcome to your spiritual home, old friend.

  118. Penguin Says:

    Kerr Ray Z “And fuck you, of course”.

    That’s very kind, not sure what I have done to warrant this kind of response, but no doubt you know better.

    All the best to you and yours…

  119. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Kerr Ray Z name, Kerr Ray Z guy.

    But then I’m allowed to question people’s mental health. It’s like gangsta rappers and ‘The N Word’. Except more brain-chemistry based, obviously.

  120. Question Bloke Says:

    Pork – you misunderstand me. I’m not treating it as something amusing, but I find it very interesting. I’m trying to think how the dynamic in that building could have worked, what state it was in – as its completely unimaginable to me.

  121. Sam Says:

    I assume you’ve read Bob’s piece above Question Bloke. And looked up the thread Penquin mentioned;

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=639

    A lot of stuff on there.
    Personally I don’t think it was or is without a certain grim humour. I look back at myself at the time as being almost completely out of control, though like most others I knew, with quite a strong sense of right and wrong amongst ourselves.

  122. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Humour bypass city or what? But I’ll try once more….

    1. Mate, I’m taking the piss. I ALWAYS take the piss especially when I’m on the internet cos it usually means I’m bored waiting for a download somewhere to finish.
    2. If you don’t like my posts then delete ‘em. No biggie. But please spare us the drama.
    3. This thread is actually about a book. An interesting one as it goes. And I think it deserves a bit of a gratuitous bump from the ubiquitous web spiders. Therefore…

    FREE VIAGRA HERE TODAY!
    SECRETS OF OBAMA’S MISSING BIRTH CERTIFICATE REVEALED!
    EXCLUSIVE AREA 51 PHOTOS. CLICK HERE.
    NICOLE KIDMAN SEX TAPE IS HERE NOW. REFINANCE NOW! PROTECT YOUR PERSONAL WEALTH FROM THE COMING FINANCIAL STORM.
    I MADE MILLIONS ON CREDIT DEFAULT SWAPS, YOU CAN TOO!
    PUNK. SQUATTER. LONDON SKINS MAYHEM. THATCHER. JUNKIE. BRIXTON. HACKNEY. BRIXTON 121 CENTRE. NICKY CRANE. BONNER. MAD JOCK.
    “Pimlico skins chased us all over W1 but we fucking hammered em on the way back from the cardiff caper.”
    “Anyone remember the black legless tuinal dealer on a skateboard who hung out in the ‘dilly circa 1980? Used to smash seven bells out of the out of towners who thought they could stand ’round like bertie big bollocks.”
    “Do they still make Potter’s catarrh powder?”

    There…That should do it.

    PEACE.

  123. Penguin Says:

    Back from a weekend in Ramsgate. A nice enough time. Sorry I missed the humour Kerr. Sometimes I have the odd ‘off’ day and miss the spot quite badly. I guess in context with the rest of the comment I should have realised it was a continuation of your mirth…Will be wiser to it in the future!

  124. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    No worries. It happens sometimes. It’s always a little difficult to read intent in pixelworld.

    I’m still gutted about our illustrious author’s confession that he really didn’t bang up a barrel of nescafe. I once knew two Aussie derelicts on the Tulse Hill estate who allegedly, and rather patriotically, jacked up vegemite. That seemed to be a little unorthodox at the time. Nescafe, apocryphal as it may be, is in a different league though. And probably a different emergency ward in the local hospital too.

  125. dave Says:

    fao kerr. you are a class act, loved the posts nearly choked on my drink
    fucking crazy

  126. dave Says:

    jah pork has sussed me!

  127. baron von zubb Says:

    Hi Ruth. We’ve missed you so much.
    This thread has degenerated nicely.

  128. ruthy Says:

    fao jah pork – yes people got fucked up and died, but that was mostly there own doing. lets get this into perspective, people lived in them flats from the 1800s and no doubt some died in the same way but people choose to take drink or drugs and we all know the consequences. yes it is a time to remember and joke about – we want to hear about the strong ones who live beyond that period. if it was so dismal why stay there im sure it wasnt the only squats about – and if i knew you used the ky on your hair (so wasteful) i would have explained what it was for (you can be a naughty boy!!)

  129. Sam Says:

    I don’t believe you’re Ruthy!

  130. Penguin Says:

    Hey Dave please take that dress off, put Porks KY in the dresser and tell us about Bonner and The Duke of Sussex pub. Who was this Bonner and what mischief occurred in that pub? Just wondered…Anyone else ex from C.B. (or that area and era) know this guy or boozer?

  131. dave Says:

    bonner was a well known glue skinhead who seriously fucked his life up by having a face piece tattoo done (ouch) he was one of the last skins to leave cb – apparantly when he was in nick he wasnt allowed a razor because he kept shaving his head with it, so when he came out he looked like uncle albert. sussex is a dump with crap beer but always garenteed lock in and always a chance of something kicking off – if not the feeling is there, like the temple bar was.

  132. Penguin Says:

    So is Bonner still with us or has he left this mortal coil? He sounds like a bit of a handful.

  133. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    I was always morbidly fascinated with the face tattoo crowd of the early 80s. They seemingly displayed an Ahab like indifference to the fact that their dysfunctionality had led them to brand themselves and their tortured lives irrevocably with indelible war paint; inky schoolboys lost in search of some mythical white power rather than a large white whale but harnessed to doomed vessels nonetheless.

    Bonner was probably Lewisham’s finest natural born fuckup and as if to unconsciously perpetuate my nautical metaphors he was last heard of residing in Lowestoft along with a few other former fog-bound skinhead sailors of glue-infested nightmares. But unlike most of his fellows he still wears his faded tatts proudly and has not succumbed to the mocharizing and ciabattatization of his world views. Or so the legend goes. Mine’s a latte btw. And I’ll also have a brie and walnut baguette to go. (Who said I couldn’t or wouldn’t sell out?)

    Dave, you may have misspent your youth but you’re the better for it, trust me. Don’t let the bastards grind you down and please keep the memories coming.

  134. Sam Says:

    There was another facially tattoo’d person at CB called ‘Belsen’. My only memories of him are him hanging from a third floor window by one hand for a laugh (as I get terrible vertigo for other people I begged him to stop) and me and him stripping several flats of copper pipes to sell for scrap and buy illicit substances with.
    He was last spotted a couple of years later by Keith Jones walking down the King’s Road in high summer wearing a balaclava to cover his tattoos.

  135. chris Says:

    there was a website I saw a while back which featured a photostudy someone had done in the 80s of london skins with tattood faces. can’t for the life of me remember the photographer’s name, but gonna send Penguin some of the pics I saved from it

  136. Penguin Says:

    Thanks to Kerr for this photo of Bonner during the Sid Vicious Memorial March 1979, and also to Chris for the rest of the photos of these Boneheads.

    http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/Boneheads/

    Dave, like Kerr writes above, if you have any memorable stories to tell about Bonner and the folk around him at C.B. then please continue to do so on this thread.

  137. Bob Says:

    We held a Kangaroo Court to evict Belson from Campbell Buildings when he was discovered on a bed passionately tongue kissing a dog. There were certain lines that even we degenerates did not wish to see crossed.

  138. Sam Says:

    Jesus Christmas. That’s news to me.

  139. Bob Says:

    It was his dog. Still, no excuse for inter species romance. We locked him up in an abandoned flat. I acted as Defence Council. My defence was “I’m sorry I can’t defend this.!”

  140. slyme68 Says:

    i remember bonner and belsen from leicester square and barclays all night cafe, whitehall. the days when i lived on the strand and spent nights deriving the west end hammered on cheap blues… belsen did regret his tats. he had to go and get all his little home done swastikas turned into flowers in batches giro by giro because “it was stupid” – a terrible revelation to have on an idelogy you’ve inked under your skin… remember the fashion for tattooing the inside of the bottom lip because that was the most painful place you could show off in the street?

  141. dave Says:

    i knew bonners girlfriend, and she told me he used to cry because of the face tattoos, and i probably would too. i remember glue sniffing with him and he sat making different shapes with his fingers in front of his forehead which isnt unusual except i kept thinking the triangle shapes looked like the kite on your forehead (cool) – kept my little mind amused. the stone fights with the demolishing teams were good too..ps good pic of bonner, the tat was only half done at this point. he used to knock around with a skin who had a cobra on his cheek (dont know the name).

  142. Penguin Says:

    Dave, trying not to be too insensitive but…this Bonner guy had a girlfriend? What was her story? Tragic I would imagine.
    Two amusing letters I remember reading in Sounds weekly rag concerning sad facial tattood boneheads where one wrote complaining he had BLITZ written on his face somewhere and the next single came out (the band was only half of the members of the Oi! BLITZ which kept the name after the split up) to his horror it was in a ‘new romantic’ style.
    The second one I read was a guy complaining of tattooing himself somewhere on the face with SKINS using a mirror only to his horror he had written it the wrong way round (but right way round in the mirror). Applause all round for that one. Dunno if that last one was a wind up letter to Sounds by some scrote, but both the letters seemed to stay in my memory for some strange reason from all those years ago.
    To put in on a blog comment in 2009 I guess!

  143. Sam Says:

    I heard the mirror backward ‘SKINS’ story from Leigh Kendall. I think he said it was W. Hampstead glue sniffing legend Pat Dasso. Last time I saw him his skin had turned to scales.

  144. chris Says:

    There was (is?) a guy in Stirling who had ‘Motorhead, Ace of Spades’ tattood on his neck, only the scratcher spellt it ‘Ace of SPADS’.

    There was also a punk in Dunfermline who got the Anti-Nowhere League fist tattood on his arm but the tattooist gave the hand six fingers!!

    Incidentally, there is a (now rather aged) punk who was one of those featured on that site of the early 80s facial tattoos who I still see at the odd punk gig i venture to. he has a spider’s web tattood on his cheek and something on his forehead.

    Kerrrazeee guys!!!

  145. John No Last Name Says:

    hmm bad tattoo stories… There was an early 80′s band from San Francisco called “Condemned To Death” and one of the members got his band’s name tattooed as “Condomed To Death”.

    I’ll let Sean tell some of his tattoo stories, but the one that comes to mind is the time he was asked to tattoo the word “Discharge” on someone he knew. Sean?

  146. dave Says:

    bonners g/friend of the time was really nice she came from epsom – we got close one night in a station waiting room (as you do) i think she went downhill after that.
    the skins tattoo in the mirror seems to be a popular thing – i met someone who had the same. ricks tattooist in woolwarth rd done a bad anti nowhere league on my shoulder – he done the thumb too big and tried to shade around it (it now looks like michael jacksons glove).
    a guy i met hunt sabbing and on some sites has a.c.a.b on his forehead. surprisingly he dont get much grief and is a nice fella.

  147. Martin C Says:

    I don’t know if anyone remembers, a while back, on another thread, I was talking about the late 80s educational ‘Solvents’ textbook that had all the pics of punks and skins (including, as it transpired from this site, the Heretics guys) ?

    Well, that mystery skinhead on the cover with the weird Maori style tats? It’s Bonner, on the strength of that linked photo.

  148. Martin C Says:

    Oh, I also think I know the skinhead Chris is talking about (with the cobweb) – not personally, but have seen him and also old pics of him on some YouTube vid.

    I’m interested to know what happened to one (other) guy called Chris who squatted in Waterloo and had South London Skins and a bulldog on his cheek. He was interviewed by the now defunct paper The Correspondent in 1990, as part of a massive feature on the homeless in London (with tonnes of Don Mc Cullin shots that I’ve not seen elsewhere). Apparently he was off smack at that point and had two daughters. He’d got new tats of spiders with his kids’ names under them, to stop his daughters being scared of them (spiders, not tattoos), so even skinheads have their soft sides! The feature also had two ex-punk girls who’d squatted in Earls Court and ended up in a hostel in Bina Gardens, plus tonnes of stuff about the Bullring, St Mungo’s, the Simon Community, then-Tory Govt inadequacies in tackling homelessness, etc. A really powerful read.

    Does anybody remember the bloke from New Cross / Lewisham who wore the green combat jacket and had ‘EAT SHIT’ tattooed on his forehead? Dom Joly ripped him off for one of his zany ‘Trigger Happy TV’ characters.

  149. Graham Burnett Says:

    I remember some crusty type I used to see around Camden in the mid 80s who had ‘Special Brew’ tattooed backwards on his forehead as he’d obviously done it himself in a mirror – doh!

  150. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    I was going to be a bit arch, Dave, but I’m thinking now that you’ve got the hang of this site…

    On the “things in the mirror” topic: I went and signed on at Wimbledon Jobcentre in the early eighties (when they moved it briefly from the UBO to the JobCentre). I was wearing a Crombie, shirt, Sta-Prest, brogues. And being most appropriate too. The woman at the desk wrote something down about me and then went off, allegedly to bring back details of jobs for me. While she was gone, I took the liberty of reading – upside down – what she’d written about me… which was “Claims to have 5 ‘O’ levels but looks a bit thick”.

    I pulled her up about it when she came back… her response (very flustered) was that I wasn’t supposed to read that because it was secret and I could be done under the Official Secrets Act. I asked her to make a note that as I could read upside down at a good speed I couldn’t be all that *thick*. She declined.

    15 years later, when I ascended the steps to pick up my First, I thought of her.

    I’m still doing fuck all, by the way.

  151. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    On the subject of stuff written backwards…. did anyone else spend much stoned time in the eighties reading names, popular phrases, European capitals etc into a microphone in their rich mate’s bedroom so that it could be sampled and reversed?

    And then spend another few stoned hours trying to imitate the reversed stuff verbatim so that it sounded like proper English when it was reversed a *second* time? I blame that Art Of Noise, meself.

    “Yin ROM Doug”, in a fake Yorkshire accent, sounds very much like “Good Morning” backwards, if you need a starter, btw…

  152. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Sam… “turned to scales” made me laugh. I’m re-reading “Generation X” and just read the bit about the astronaut with “space sickness” who ended up “looking like Frankenstein” because of his scaly skin!

    Unlike Douglas Coupland’s guy who shed his skin and became peachy and wonderful again when the mall-rat heroine died for his sake, our face-tat boys are still capable of 100% camouflage in front of a tabloid news stand, innit?

  153. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Lou/Luggy-> Did you know Bonner’s girlfriend? We spent a bit of time down Epsom/Ewell/Stoneleigh way 81/82-ish, didn’t we? Was she punk/skinhead/freakish or what, Dave?

  154. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Graham-> on the “Brew” front… “Red Stripe Crucial Brew”. In the half-sized black can with the white letters. Now THAT was a beer! Well worth snakebiting. I used to do it with the Taunton Special Vat Cider. Bloody marvellous.

  155. dave Says:

    bonners g/friend from what i remember was nice she was a skin
    i met her in epsom at a party and then again in cb dont know much else bout her

  156. dave Says:

    right come on – most embarrassing moment – mine was puking (progectile) on the dance floor (and most people around me) at a combat 84 gig at walmer castle – but i think i had last laugh watching people not so much jumping around but sliding around (possibly invented moon walking).

  157. Penguin Says:

    Pretty embarrassing Dave. Combat 84! Humm… :-(
    Deptford John was approachable though, used to roadie for the UK Subs, and do some work at Bowes Lyon House Stevenage.
    Me? Falling asleep at a Chaos UK gig curled up in the speaker…that was pretty rubbish…No idea how I could still hear anything afterwards! No idea what crap was on me after I awoke either, best probably not knowing I guess!

  158. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    @Sam

    Pat Dasso! Haven’t heard that name in years. He was one of the Cricklewood cobweb mob (skins) that was a mainstay of West End nightlife back in those days. Last I heard of him he was pushing a pram, with his wife, down his local high st, still with the tatts emblazoned across his face. He had a big red devil on his cheek from when he spent his saturdays trashing town centres with the much feared but overhyped Cockney Reds. (Man United’s London hooligan following – for those of you not in the know). Does anyone remember another tattooed bonehead called “Metal Mickey”? He ended up homeless and tried to hold a German tourist hostage in Leicester Sq one summer afternoon. Unfortunately he ended up getting shot in the head by the Old Bill for his efforts. Made the 6 o’clock news about 1990ish. He survived btw.

    I got a pic of Belsen with Terry C***shaw that I’ll put up a link to, along with some other shady characters. Mr Penguin can add it to his collection and delete the links when I’m done. Had a load of pics of boneheads on an old hard drive that went kaput last year. A lot of them were taken By Rob from Ealing. (He was a half-asian skin who gained acceptance on the right wing scene for a while. There were black skins too btw. Takes all sorts as they say.)

    Also @Penguin (Btw, I’m tempted to call you Mr Whitehead out of deference to any welsh language speakers here *L*)

    The Sid Vicious Memorial March in Hyde Park was in 1980, not ’79, that is one year after his death. It was organised by Micky “Last Resort” French and so consequently had a very high ratio of Nazi skinheads present. (Oh, the irony…)

    Anyways….

    Terry & Belsen

    http://www.imagebam.com/image/b002cf43417123

    Nicola & friends outside a Soho pub

    http://www.imagebam.com/image/d0ec5143417124

    Tommy & co

    http://www.imagebam.com/image/6c0aa943417127

    A very young angelic-looking Bonner (with Tony M)

    http://www.imagebam.com/image/eed31443417128

  159. Penguin Says:

    Cheers Kerr, I knew the march was 1980, dunno why I wrote 1979. Must of been rushed…He was still cleaning out his works some time during that year!
    Will update the bonehead photos section after work.
    Do not quite get the Mr Whitehead tag though, but by all means call me by that name if you so wish. I defend to my death your right to do so! ;-)
    I remember Tottenham High Road being generally trashed and fights breaking out all over the place during most yearly visits by the MUFC mob even as recent as about eight years ago. Don’t know where they all get the energy from…

  160. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Penguin = Welsh for ‘white head’ that is Pen Gwyn. One of the few Welsh words that has been subsumed into modern English or so the popular etmology goes. Nobody has ever mentioned that one to you before???!

    A Kill Your Pet Puppy Bonehead Gallery. Will wonders never cease!!!

  161. Penguin Says:

    A hearty ho ho Kerr, never knew that.
    Now I do though, so expect me to bore the crap out of folk asking me about ‘my name’ at all those posh society balls that I get asked to attend on a regular basis.
    Bonehead Gallery? Yep it’s there, dunno if you can call half a dozen photos a gallery though!

  162. Tony Puppy Says:

    The Sid Vicious March is the basis of a four page spread in KYPP2. See photobucket for full article.

    http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/KYPP%20issue%202/?action=view&current=page08.jpg

  163. chris Says:

    I remember Sounds doing a big feature on the Vicious Memorial March. With photos of some character called ‘China Doll’ who was always sending letters in claiming his rightful place as London’s No1 Sid Vicious look-a-like.

    Kerr Ray Z. Fokker: brilliant photos by the way. There’s a ‘photo book’ called WE ARE NF from the late 70s which is full of photos of skinheads on NF rallies and stuff which Martin ‘Lux’ showed me a while back. A few of the photos from it are up here: http://www.myspace.com/martin_lux_antifascist

  164. Penguin Says:

    Tony D: The Sid Vicious March is the basis of a four page spread in KYPP2. See photobucket for full article.

    http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/KYPP%20issue%202/?action=view&current=page08.jpg

    Now after re-reading this article I realise (again) why this fanzine was a cut above a lot (most) of the others that were available to buy (or steal) during that era. A brilliant read, great cartoons, interesting layouts.

    My originals are in a protective plastic case to continue to keep them as fresh as possible. After all these years they still look crisp.
    All my other fanzines (except my collection of International Anthem papers and Eklektik) are stuffed in a couple of boxes!

    Reckon I may well re-read a whole lot more from the pages of KYPP throughout the rest of the week to get re-aquainted with them.

    I hope some of the browsers who may have lost their original copies, or did not ever own them, will take the time to read the complete(ish) copies scanned into the photo archive, or possibly start with the link Tony left, which is relevant to this thread at the moment, and the writing also backs up Kerr Ray comment of the amount of dubious boneheads that turned up…

  165. alistairliv Says:

    Do what the Penguin says!

  166. Pelican Says:

    In the KYPP article, there’s references to “meetings in Hyde Park” and “Jock McDonald football match” – to what events were these referring, please?

  167. Pelican Says:

    Found this

    http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/85035720/Redferns

  168. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Here’s three more for the gallery….

    Bonner all fucked up at Southend:

    http://www.imagebam.com/image/436f9943520264

    Tommy (on right) and unknown:

    http://www.imagebam.com/image/a1468f43520266

    Tottenham skins we are here (one for Mr Whitehead *L*)….

    http://www.imagebam.com/image/3ed75243520265

    Enjoyed the photos on that Martin Lux link. Looking at the middle-aged beer monsters and bay city rollers clones brought it all back. What were they thinking of? This country was fucked a long time ago by persons long since dead. Would take more than a few second rate rock ‘n’ rollers to bring it back; even if we could actually agree on what it was we exactly lost in the first place. Personally, I love decline. Never feel happier than when it is all turning to shit. I tick the box for Anarchy every time.

  169. Tony Puppy Says:

    Pelican. The Jock MacDonald football match was a reference to Mr MacDonald going around promoting a punks v skins football match on Brighton beach on a bank holiday. Needless to say punks and skins were going to Brighton anyway and no football match took place.

    “Meetings in Hyde Park” – I have no recollection what that refers to…sorry.

  170. Bob Short Says:

    There was a similarly themed event held in Hyde Park. Soccer was played briefly. Later, A tug of war rope was stretched out as if there was going to be a tug of war. Instead, the seventy feet of rope was picked up and everyone charged at the police escort. The Police ran away. The rope was then secured to a tea trolley in the serpentine cafe. This was then pulled around the lake, causing much chaos and consternation. The police arrived in force and the riot act was formerly read and the crowd dispersed.

  171. Penguin Says:

    The Bonehead gallery is growing at an alarming rate, where the hell do all those scary photos appear from on those links supplied by several browsers?

    http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/Boneheads/

    Kerr – thanks ever so for the Tottenham Skins at the Bell and Hare pub photo. The pub in this photo plus The Antwerp and the Bricklayers Arms are all a small wander from White Hart Lane and are the pubs I go to before / after going to see the mighty THFC perform their trickery from time to time.
    Need a stiff drink after that, believe me…

    On a facial tattoo note, the guy that collects the empty glasses at the Bricklayers Arms (scene of I.C.F main face Andy Swallow’s last arrest and most recent imprisonment a few years ago when the happy Hammers came down around early afternoon before a midweek game dressed in THFC gear and had a massive tear up in the place, along with The Cockeral pub up the road) is Bonner I swear…Sometime soon when the season starts I will go in there and check it out (if he is still ‘working’ there).

    The photos on the link above, if I was to age this guy by 25 – 30 years, stick some more piercings on him, it could well be Bonner. This guy has been collecting glasses for a couple of seasons now at the pub on matchdays, and I have never spoken to him, but those tattoos look very familiar. I may well be wrong but there can not be too many folk looking that similar I would have thought.

    On a non-related, Andy Swallow note, when he was involved in Labello Blanco Records in the early to mid 1990′s, he threatened to come down to where I was and break both my legs with his firm of I.C.F. hoodlums.

    I had to field his phone calls because my boss kept pretending to be out everytime he rung up due to wanting to take his label out of the Pete Waterman Ltd umberella of labels that S.R.D. were distributing around that time (and S.R.D. had no right to release the stock to him unless P.W.L. instructed us to).

    Strangely though he was always ok with me the few times we met briefly when he visited S.R.D. before the fall out with P.W.L.

    Anyhow I took his threats extremely seriously.

    Gladly though I was never hassled, if I was I very much doubt I would be here today to moderate this site!

  172. Pelican Says:

    Thanks for explanations, Tony, Bob.

    Here’s a vid on youtube which has a few faces you may recognize…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCWXfNwZ5ZI

  173. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    It’s all Dave’s fault! I was never gonna even mention Bonner or Belsen when Campbell Bldgs finally got its own thread. Still, we meandered onto the Sid Vicious Memorial March so that made it worth it imho. (Loved the KYPP article btw.)

    And thank fuck that old hard drive of mine went kaput last year cos I literally had hundreds of mugshots of facially tattooed London boneheads on it.

    Btw, collecting pics of shaven headed youth on one’s puter is completely gay. It does not impress the ladies. FACT.

  174. dave Says:

    its not the first time ive been blamed! glad you kept the gallery memories of southend flooding back – and hard drive crashing? best excuse ive heard for wiping gay porn (lol).

  175. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    @Dave

    Southend? I thought you would have been more of a Brighton or Margate man myself. The Essex mobs weren’t very friendly towards outsiders, or each other for that matter, from what I remember, even on bank holidays. So much for Chubby Chris’s ‘skinhead unity’. Mind you, it was even worse a few years before. That whole ‘London skins’ thing could have never happened in ’79 or ’80. People risked a kicking if they left their own postcode. Even the ladies were at it. I’ll never understand this current obsession with ‘Violent Britain’. It was much worse back then. Most of it never even made the back pages. Mayhem.

  176. Pelican Says:

    kerr – really? I have also heard this, that North, South etc London was very divided, but its hard to imagine now. So would you literally be in danger going from N London to a gig in E London?

  177. Pelican Says:

    Despite his face, was Bonner actually a nice person?

  178. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    I remember going to a ska gig in North-West London (I’m a South London man) during my skinhead/rude boy period with my skinhead girlfriend and being pinned against the bog wall and told I was gonna get the fuck kicked out of me by (I think) the Totts and Whets mob from up North London way.

    Luckily Mitzi knew a big crew from out East who were there and it got sorted before I got cunted!

    These were the kind of people who would team up happily with Geordies and Scousers when on a Spanish package deal but would kick in someone from the estate up the road if they came into their local for a pint. Truly boneheads!

  179. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    There were gangs from different parts of the same council estate back then. It really was that parochial. And yep, you definitely risked a kicking if you went to the wrong pub/club with the wrong people. The bonehead thing was very fratricidal indeed; the fighting between various East End mobs on the way to Sham’s gig at the Roundhouse were legendary. And people got stabbed and occasionally killed for hanging around in the wrong part of town too. The big thing back then was ‘taxing’. Everybody used to do it. Black, white, football or non-football. It basically consisted of paying an entrance/exit fee for the privilege of visiting a shithole for the day. We sometimes used to tax people on the tube for wearing the wrong clobber or just looking out of place. (Read “looking like you couldn’t take care of yourself”. In short, bullying, pure and simple.)

    Btw, the famous story of Chelsea Eric from Virginia Water (I heard the tale whilst still grappling with an unopened jamboree bag on some long since concreted-over school playground) who not only had his sheepskin coat taken from him by scallies at Lime St, but, so the legend goes, also the half-eaten meat pie wrestled from his hand, was not just a beautiful illustration of the savagery of the North/South divide in England but could have been a grim illustration of the brutality of the N/S/E/W divide in London at that time. Football and music sometimes united such divides but more often than not helped to widen the yawning chasm. We grew up at primary school with tales of the weekend bloodbaths: Newington Butts Pineapple boys vs Brixton skins or Brixton blacks vs Peckham blacks at the local fairground. (The black pyjama-bottomed world of the mid 70s soul brotha was another violent microculture – where the afro comb was sharpened at friday night kung fu movie spectaculars a la Elephant or at what later became the Brixton Ace/Fridge etc etc).

    And when you didn’t have the street fashion confrontations there were always plenty of ford cortina boys and assorted herberts to make the going tough. And the Old Bill were the biggest cunts of the lot. As usual.

    For me, it all seemed to die down shortly after the Falklands War. The violent zeitgeist seemingly exorcised. That and the flooding of the streets with quality heroin. It really worked wonders.

  180. Pelican Says:

    Thanks for the info – no joking, I do find this genuinely interesting.

    Any more info on what Bonner was like as a person, a mate – before I officially launch the ‘BRING BACK BONNER’ campaign? We need to reinstate him as a national institution, spin-off movie franchie, action doll and subject of a theme park where we get kids to have temporary hand-painted ‘Bonner’ faces – I think???

  181. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Well I can’t help you with the in-depth psychological profile but I don’t think I’d use the word “nice” to describe many people back then, least of all some fucked-up bonehead with a trailer load of personal demons in tow. Most of the facially tattooed fraternity were fairly damaged individuals with a sideline in petty-criminality and thuggery. But they were entertainers, Bonner included, though I was never personally tight with him or his cohorts. (He struck me as a bit childish I have to say.) Even the much maligned and full time pantomime rottweiler Kenny, from Stonebridge Park, had his lighter side. Let’s say that they all had a lot of personal tragedy in their lives, as did we, and the drugs tended to make them more, not less, unpredictable. I will say this though, most of them tended to be above average intelligence. The real divs never had the imagination to fuck up their lives with such noticeable aplomb.

    Btw Mr Whitehead, your tales of West Ham’s Birdman made me chuckle. Just as well you never told him you were a yiddo. One of yours started the first raves over in Silvertown around 86 and ended up eventually being muscled out by the ice cream firm. The younger lot at Upton Park had no respect for their older White Hart Lane counterparts unlike their forebears who frequently teamed up with Bug-eyed Vic D and Walthamstow’s Keithy P to have a crack at all comers. I do remember Echoes, Labyrinth and Dungeons and the Summer of Love like it were yesterday. All turned to shit after a few gang rapes and the rise of the footsoldier. But I still like to sit back occasionally and pretend that Corporation Dave and DJ Mad Axe are still at the controls and Baby Ford is blasting out of the sound system. Was that really over 20 years ago? Fuck me, it’s worse than I feared…

    Good luck with the action dolls and the McBonehead franchise. Sadly a lot of the cobwebbed faces were lost to laser surgery, considered mandatory by the Probation Service, during the decades intervening. I heard that Stevie Nick got around the problem by having even more tattoos done until he ended up with indelible facial wallpaper.

  182. Penguin Says:

    Pelican, Penguin here. You got a weird name Brother Beaky – how come my feathered friend?

    Anyhow, if you are interested in more tales from a similar era written by some of the folk that were there, detailing snippets of their exsistence in other squalid squats leading onto desperation, disease, addictions, a spot of the old ultra violence and sadly some deaths, you really ought to check 90% of the 750+ comments on the following thread.

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=639

    Even Kenny the nut nut mentioned by Lord Kerr above is remembered (not so) fondly on several comments by some of the browsers that crossed his path in those days.

  183. Siobhan (punk Toni) Says:

    Hi,
    wow what a blast from the past haha. Will get to read the book i didn’t know it existed. Good to see people survived. I do have vague memories of the balcony.

  184. Siobhan (punk Toni) Says:

    Apparently Bonner is still about, over in Lewisham so i’ve heard.

  185. Pelican Says:

    Siobhan, please send him our best and tell him we await his return with much anticipation

  186. Penguin Says:

    Hi Toni, you should get the book and Bob’s other one ‘Filth’. Both great reads…
    The other post as mentioned to the strangely named ‘Pelican’ a few comments above (and directly above your first comment) is a rip roaring read of places and faces you may well have forgotten about!

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=639

    I ask this to all the older generation of punkers. You got any photos at all of the people and places relevent to this era?

    One of this ‘Mad Dog’ from Kennington would be nice…Seems like a nice lad ;-)

    If you have got some lying about somewhere get in touch via the contact option on top of the site and we could take it from there.

  187. Martin C Says:

    A full-colour Bonner at the peak of his fame, below. Hope he got a share of the royalties.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2HR4WO-X4Gw/Sp2xqwemUfI/AAAAAAAAAVM/dlYFhynRVoI/s1600-h/P1010632.JPG

  188. Vincent Says:

    Is this person still about if so who is it?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvGEeOR4toc

  189. Vincent Says:

    Is this person still about? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGkddwHhDKs&feature=related

  190. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    First fella was a definite face ’round the ‘dilly. Name escapes me for now. Second is Stevie Nick, who I mentioned in previous post. He’s well young in that doc!

    Both are still alive and well as far as I know. Steve N. now lives abroad and is a professional tattooist. (Did he have any other options???!!)

  191. Simon Says:

    did anyone get a definitive sighting on Bonner ? still alive ?????

    also, did anyone know that skin with the facial tatts on the vid ‘ UK/DK’ ? remember him? Is he still alive ? who was he? whats his story?

    funny to watch him getting his arms tattooed. Not so much the fact of him getting it done but the tattooist isn’t wearing gloves and has what looks like dirt under his fingernails……signs of the times i suppose

  192. jay of L B ... Says:

    I met Bonner in his later glue sniffing state, walking zombie more like, he was nuts, I used to travel up each night to hang around Trafalgar Sq and Leceister Sq and Carnaby and so on, I have just come across some good skinhead photos from the Gear Market in Carnaby Street , also I have in them a photo of the skinhead that followed many around with a video camera, now I have just been told his name is maybe Derek, now this fella must have loads of film/video tape of most of the London skins over the 1980′s as he was everywhere we went, Southend and many other bank holiday events… Now I was known as Nutter / Jay of L B and had a bleached denim jacket with the word SKINS in bold.
    I was always about say around 1983 to 85/86 London, went to many Screwdriver gigs and so on, 4 Skins etc… Kings Road many times to take a look at the punks and the down and out skins by then Bonner being one of them, if I remember right he wore a crombie a lot.

    I see many on here are talking tattoos, I was up Carnaby and one of the lot I was with decided to get a tattoo done, he went off then came back after the tat had been inked, we fell about as he got steel cap boots done on his right arm but to find the guy doing it was pissed and had tattooed a pair of wellie boots. lol.
    So funny.

    So lets hope I can get the photos on here to show soon…

    Any one got some of the Last Resort shop to show, that was the place to be…

    How about Unit 2 and DGAF (dont give a fuck) all names of skinheads that were about at that time… Black boots skin Black Martin the list could go on.

  193. jay of L B ... Says:

    Does anyone remember Ginger Phil, my mate small young skinhead in the day 1983/4 .. top bloke …

    Ok Minds gone blank again ..

  194. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    I was around a few years earlier. Don’t remember a skin with a videocamera but there was a half-Asian skin who followed everyone around with an instamatic. Is that who you mean? He was called Rob and originally came from Ealing. If you got any photos of London urban youth circa 79-84, then put up a link. I’d love to see em.

    Jay, did you squat? Most of the boneheads I knew did. Loads ended up on the peace convoy and grew their hair long. I went to Glastonbury in ’87 and couldn’t believe how many ex-skins were about.

  195. baronvonzubb Says:

    From bonehead to peace convoy.
    Hmmm interesting
    Sam what DO you make of all this ?
    Having said that I aint surprised.
    Who would have thought a load of bonehead hippies would take on the state…

  196. Nic Says:

    That’s part of the reason the “Free” movement died…

    All the squares (“You think you’re really different, but you’re just the same – you’ve got the same mind, same mind”) saw that the “Free” movement was the next ‘party’ scene, and they killed it…

    From Stonehenge to Studio 4, it’s just a small leap…
    ;)

  197. alistairliv Says:

    Nic – do you mean this http://www.studio-4.co.uk/ studio 4?

    Or was/is there another one?

  198. jock Says:

    were these the same lot who got into the travelling/convoy/free festival scene and labelled themselves the ‘brew crew’? cos they did a good job of fucking the whole thing up if it was. well done fellas.

  199. alistairliv Says:

    brewcrew = boneheads? Maybe… but John Pendragon (RIP) used to blame all the young punks for trashing the scene.

    And Kevin Hetherington – a sociology lecturer- [New Age Travellers: Cassell: 2000] concluded it was a lower middle class movement. He mentions the Brew Crew on page 58 but equates them with ‘crusties’…

  200. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    The second wave of skins were just bald-headed punks with a tad more attitude and less apparent, though not actual, self-loathing than their spiky-topped cousins. Or so I always thought. Both were clearly killed off by the double-edged sword of hard drugs and Thatcherite monetary expansion. Thought the whole hippy convoy thing went the same way, although with a greater mushroom cloud of Crasstafarian self-righteous moral indignation.
    And more mung beans obviously.

    On a personal level, I always thought that Scottish tramp punks were the biggest fuckers of the lot. I am tempted to blame them for most things. They definitely ruined Brixton squatterdom with their bleak oatmeal-infested violence and obtuse caledonian stupidities. Dundee cunts.

  201. jock Says:

    “And Kevin Hetherington – a sociology lecturer- [New Age Travellers: Cassell: 2000] concluded it was a lower middle class movement. He mentions the Brew Crew on page 58 but equates them with ‘crusties’…”

    Al,is the article or book that the text above is from available to read online anywhere?

  202. alistairliv Says:

    Jock – you can read most of the the New Age Travellers book on google books- which also has a ‘search’ option.

    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3UoTh67AUzwC&dq=Kevin+Hetherington+New+Age+Travellers&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=2Kn5SvL0Ms-F4QaRl-WvCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

  203. jock Says:

    nice one al,thanks.

  204. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Kerr Ray Z: “Dundee Cunts”…?

    Aha! You are Frankie Boyle and I claim my free gram of Morningside speed!

  205. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    “The second wave of skins were just bald-headed punks with a tad more attitude and less apparent, though not actual, self-loathing than their spiky-topped cousins.”

    For that, read: “any youth cult who hadn’t already got the joke”, to my mind.

    Soul boys, Skins, Bowie freaks, Mods, Rockers, Teds…. they all had lots of actual self-loathing or they wouldn’t have got teamed up in the first place. The attitude only came when they realised what a fucking awful mistake they’d made juxtaposing themselves against other kids instead of the people who were *really* fucking them.

  206. baron von zubb Says:

    That’s part of the reason the “Free” movement died…

    All the squares (”You think you’re really different, but you’re just the same – you’ve got the same mind, same mind”) saw that the “Free” movement was the next ‘party’ scene, and they killed it…

    From Stonehenge to Studio 4, it’s just a small leap…

    Dunno about that.

    I didnt mean that the bonehead hippies were any more apathetic than anyone else. But the movement obviously got more angry with their added voom voom, and bigger and in the end the state had to change the law to crush it because of the no comprimise stance of those involved – the anti beat music law, forget its name now. I always did wonder about the providence of the brew crew and the more nihilistic chaps n ghals in the convoy. If they were ex boneheads it makes sense.
    Its an interesting bit of underground UK social history, the journey from boots and braces to dogs on a string.
    Kerr Razy Focker care to eleborate? How d’you get from skin to hippie?
    Enjoy BVZ

  207. AL Puppy Says:

    From Corporate Watch on eviction of 1000 travellers. See http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=3454

    As part of a larger traveller site on Oak Lane in Crays Hill, Billericay, Dale Farm has been home to Roma and travellers since the 1960′s, when the first group of Roma settled there. During the l970′s, a number of families were granted planning permission by the then Labour-controlled Basildon Council and by 1996 there were some 40 properties on the site owned by travellers.

    The l994 Criminal Justice Act not only ‘relieved’ local authorities of the duty to provide caravan parks to travellers, a duty imposed by the l968 Caravan Sites Act, but also increased police powers, under Section 62, to evict travellers attempting to camp on roadsides or car parks. The Conservative government at the time advised travellers to buy the land they had been living on to ‘avoid trouble’. Indeed, relatives of those settled on Oak Lane bought an old scrap-yard and other adjacent greenbelt land, including Dale Farm.

    Dale Farm was divided into 52 plots and accommodated some 70 families. The number of residents has since grown considerably with approximately 1,000 men, women and children now living on the site. This expansion has been due to evictions in other parts of Essex, in Hertfordshire and Cambridgeshire where travellers lost land they had bought because local councils refused to grant them planning permission.

    In 2005, Basildon District Council, together with Tory MP John Baron, started a campaign to “rid the district of travellers,” as a local newspaper put it at the time. Needless to say, the issue has been exploited by a plethora of politicians to win votes, from the Conservatives, through Labour, to the BNP. The district council is now Conservative-controlled.

    All planning applications for plots on Dale Farm were refused and three public inquiries were held. The travellers’ appeals to government eventually resulted in a temporary stay for two years. In May 2005, however, Basildon Council voted to spend up to £4 million on ‘direct action eviction’ under Section 127 of the Town and Country Planning Act, not only of Dale Farm but also of other traveller families living at Hovefields Avenue, Wickford. The Essex County Council has even drawn up a plan to allegedly take more than 100 children at Dale Farm into temporary care as a means of pressuring their families to leave Basildon, or Essex altogether.

    In May 2008, the Dale Farm eviction was put on hold when the High Court issued an injunction against the eviction, ruling that the council had failed to offer an alternative site. The council also took later decisions concerning two other sites and these were subsequently included in the same judicial proceedings. In January 2009, the Court of Appeal overturned the High Court ruling, paving the way for an imminent eviction. An application to the House of Lords to appeal the decision made by the Court of Appeal has recently been refused.

    It is worth noting that the Dale Farm case has been registered with the United Nations Advisory Group on Forced Evictions, which has even sent a special team to monitor the eviction. The Children’s Commissioner has also written to the council to enquire about its plans to avoid further traumatising the 150 or so children living on the site and to determine what alternative accommodation it has to offer them. The council has not been able to provide any answers, even though a ‘huge re-housing process’ is allegedly underway.

  208. Vincent Says:

    How often was the cross tattoo’d in the middle of the forehead? I seen some young lad with it too the other day.

  209. Penguin Says:

    A message sent to Bob and Stewey recently. Can anyone who was living legit or squatting in Campbell Buildings in the summer of 1980 help at all?

    Dear Bob & Stewart

    We have just come across the chapter from Bob’s book ‘Trash Can’ and all the references to Campbell Buildings.

    Do either of you remember Gary Critchley who was found on the pavement outside the squat in the early hours of Saturday June 28 1980 and later accused of murdering Edward McNeill in a frenzied hammer attack?

    Bits and pieces of his story are here on this website http://www.b39969.org.uk/ this being Gary’s personal ‘security barcode’ (his words), or prison number, as he has now been inside for a total of 28 years! Read particularly the Private Eye article that came out in July this year.

    Myself and another librarian have become involved in trying to publicize this extraordinary miscarriage of justice.

    We happened to purchase some of Gary’s paintings and began corresponding with him without ever asking why he was inside. When the Private Eye article came out in July we were flabbergasted to say the least and began our campaign.

    Fifty of his paintings were sent to Adelaide and were in a recent exhibition there. Prior to posting them we photographed them all and have made them into cards to sell, 12 are at present on the website.

    On reading your description of what you did with the kitchen doors, putting them at 45 degree angles to barricade the doors, is word for word, plus diagram, of how Gary explained to us in a letter, of what the police found when they went upstairs but did not believe in his explanation.

    If either of you have ANY INFORMATION WHATSOEVER that could be helpful could you let us know and we can pass it on to Glyn Maddocks, the solicitor who has taken up his case or we can send you Glyn’s address?

    If you think it worthwhile posting the above on the blog that is fine. Anyone who can provide ANY INFORMATION should be encouraged to contact us as soon as possible.

    Many thanks and we’d like to buy two copies of your book, one to send to Gary.

    Best regards,
    Julie

    Julie Coimbra/Librarian
    Centre for Latin American Studies
    17 Mill Lane
    Cambridge
    CB2 1RX
    United Kingdom
    Tel: 44-1223-335398 (am) 337110 (pm)
    Fax: 44-1223-335397

  210. Sam Says:

    Wow…that’s ‘Crap’ (as he was known). I’ll let Robbo know.

  211. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Yep. That was the worst of Kennington Police’s many bad deeds. It’s always stunk, that one.

  212. dave Says:

    i remember this incident, good luck to him and fuck kennington nick

  213. jock Says:

    was he left paralysed permanantley? horrible sounding incident, nearly wrote horrible story but it aint no tale for the guy.
    good luck to him hope he does really get some justice, never heard about his case until reading it here. i did a quick search and apart from the private eye link theres no info about his case at all.

  214. Sam Says:

    I don’t think he was paralysed. I went up to Brum with him just after this and I remember him hobbling about on crutches. Fuck knows what happened. Could have been any of us really. There’s an office block on the site of CB now. Wonder if any of that dark energy still lingers?
    I was in Washington DC with my art class recently and they’ve got part of Rachael Whiteread’s ‘House’ in the National Gallery there. If you’re not familiar with it, its a cast of a Victorian terraced house, using the actual outer shell as a mold. I always find it really moving. Seen as a block of plaster, the space of a room is tiny, with the old open fireplace inside out etc…
    The house is gone but the resonance of the social history remains perhaps. All those layers of London.

  215. dave Says:

    its strange how for some, this area was like hell to them, and for others like myself it was the happiest of times (one persons hell is anothers heaven) but it has certainly left an impression on all.

  216. baronvonzubb Says:

    sam i thought he was nicked in hospital or something ? but we know your memories good though so i guess you did go up to brum when he was on crutches.
    who was edward mcneal?
    that racheal whiteread piece is a brilliant metaphor for the buildings themselves.
    the crap incident (as mentioned in the very famous and fantastic book joys of work……) summed up the futility of the place. As you said could have been any of us.
    All of us who lived there should try to help.
    though on my part i wasnt actually there during those months.
    jake

  217. Penguin Says:

    Baron wrote: “the crap incident (as mentioned in the very famous and fantastic book joys of work……) summed up the futility of the place. As you said could have been any of us”.

    There is also a small passage about the incident in Bob’s second book entitled ‘Filth’.
    Details of the book here and where to get a copy:
    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=474
    and Jakes book here and where to get a copy:
    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=1966

  218. Sam Says:

    I think he was out on bail at the time Jake. In fact we were living at 66a now I think of it. So it wasn’t shortly after. Would have been winter 1980. Nearly 30 years ago. Amazing.

  219. Graham Burnett Says:

    Was watching an old ‘hammer House of Horror’ episode the other night as you do, in it an estate agent and his assistant went to visit ‘The Campbell Buildings’, which looked remarkably like the picture above – could this have been filmed in THE Campbell Buildings? Was it ever used as a TV filming location circa 1980???

  220. Graham Burnett Says:

    http://avengerland.theavengers.tv/spotting/HammerHo08.jpg
    Stills from the program which I found here
    http://avengerland.theavengers.tv/spotting/spot0.htm

    and a picture of the location from the same page
    http://avengerland.theavengers.tv/spotting/GreenhamClose.jpg

  221. Sam Says:

    Yeah that’s it Graham. I remember this being shown on tele though I thought it was Tales of the Unexpected. There’s a great shot of it being knocked down with a wrecking ball (I cheered when I first saw it). I seem to remember glimpses of grafitti during that scene.

  222. Tony Puppy Says:

    Excellent work Graham.

  223. Bob Short Says:

    I’ve been trying to leave this alone but everytime I think I’m out, they drag me right in. Yes Hammer shot at Campbell Buildings in 1980 as the most easterly block was being demolished. That graffitti on the walls, chances are you knew someone who wrote it. The filming was almost guerilla level. Very little set up. They were there for two days mainly shooting at the western side of the estate. I’d like to think the central casting rent a punkette who appears in the episode was a tribute to the bored punk onlookers with nothing better to do with their time than watch real live theatre luvvies in action. We watched them and they watched us. Poetic.

  224. Graham Burnett Says:

    The ‘punkette’ was actually called ‘Lolly’ in the story, and it was actually a dream sequence, normally she was the Denholm Elliot character’s dowdy secretary, but in the dream she was wearing all that fantasy gear that she’s got on in the photo. Then she fell down a lift shaft.

  225. luggy Says:

    Some synchronicity for you, I know Denholm Elliott’s son Mark. He’s ‘punk as fuck’ as you can see from this vid of him singing with his band The Short Bus Window Lickers:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xskusNQU4w

  226. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Re: Gary “Crap” Critchley…

    I got arrested for it too. Difference is, he’s done *28 years* for it. Kennington Police just fucked me around like they always did with scared teenagers. I didn’t think he did it then and I still don’t think he did it now. I was around at the time. That really isn’t the point though: it’s just my opinion. Some of you were around too.. but even if you weren’t, read on… Whatever your opinions are, whether you know anything about this bad time or not, please read the rest of this post…

    Read (as in posts above) http://www.b39969.org.uk/pdf/private_eye_24July2009.pdf

    Once you’ve read it…

    IF, like me, you just simply *don’t* think he did it, then write to the Home Secretary, Alan Johnson, or your MP if you have one, right now (that includes you guys overseas).

    IF you realise after reading it and thinking about English Criminal Law that the only good basis for a conviction is a rigid technical relationship between the charge made against the accused and the evidence offered in court, then PLEASE look at the attached link and THEN write to the Home Secretary, Alan Johnson, or your MP, right now. That’s to say… they didn’t prove it with the evidence, did they?

    Even if you think that the original trial was fair as presented by the lawyers and delivered by the witnesses at the time… IF you can’t figure out *now* why the Criminal Cases Review Commission didn’t send it straight back to the Court Of Appeal knowing what we do nowadays about blood spatter and the rest of the forensic evidence… then *PLEASE* write!

    EVEN IF you read the attached link and you STILL think you’re not convinced of his innocence, then please realise that he is not being treated fairly by the prison and probation authorities… Nobody should be given an extra 5 years in prison after all this time simply for missing a probation appointment. Please write to the Home Secretary and ask him to exercise his prerogative in this matter.

    Please, please, please… when you are enjoying your time with your families over the Holiday season… Think of Gary Critchley. If you want to know more, or you want to write to Gary, please get my email from Penguin.

    This is one of us. It’s one of the very few things that we’ve all still got in common after all this time. And he needs us. He’s tried to top himself twice lately because he’s alone in there and he feels like he’s got no hope.

    Don’t let this slip by you. Give the bloke a fair go. It’s important.

    Happy Holidays.

    Paul.

  227. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    And, btw, that’s without saying a single word about:

    (a) Kennington Old Bill and their propensity to make a decision and stick to it regardless of what actually happened in any given 1980s situation. If you were there then you’ll know what I mean.

    (b) What we now know of the work of Home Office Pathologists in the light of the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six terrorism cases.

    (c) The Probation Service just kinda generally really.

  228. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Sam

    This is still very real mate – with respect, and you know I do hold you in the greatest respect brother, it’s not to be consigned to history until the man gets some justice.

    I’m just pretty fucked up about this at the moment.

  229. jock Says:

    well said pork pie, i’m amazed that its taken this long for something like this to finally start being brought to our attention.
    maybe there should be a seperate post here on kypp about the case, there must i think be a large number of people who view this blog?
    how about using myspace or/and facebook to get publicity for Gary? does kypp have its own page on those sites?
    i will at least write to the Home Secretary, Alan Johnson.
    how about getting an address for writing letters of support to Gary, try and keep his spirit up etc.
    something needs to be done about this.
    good luck.

  230. Sam Says:

    Not taking it lightly Pork. He’s been on my mind and I’ll write to the powers that be. Wrote to Robbo about it but not heard from him. I’ll give him a ring though.

    Sam

  231. Nic Says:

    I tried looking at the website mentioned earlier in the thread when it was first posted but couldn’t seem to load it…
    Having read the Private Eye pdf: it’s abominable…

    Thank you for the reminder Jah.

    Jock has some good ideas: the social networking sites provide ‘profile’ which may increase awareness of what looks like a serious miscarriage of justice…

  232. AL Puppy Says:

    There are some of Gary’s paintings on the website
    http://www.b39969.org.uk/gallery.html

  233. Sam Says:

    Got in touch with Robbo (who knew him for a long time in Brum and in CB at the time of the incident) who is now on the case.

    Sam X

  234. jock Says:

    For any of those who write blogs,music ones or anything else,i think there are a few other bloggers who post comments from time to time, how about copy and pasting the post Al wrote ‘Gary Critchley-Raised In A Prison’
    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=3160
    Then post int onto your own blogs? Spread the word etc……
    Happy new year puppies and all’

  235. Michelle Says:

    I’m Gary Critchleys sister, we all know Gary didnt do this and was stitched up by the police for it. His Trial was at the Old Bailey the same time as the Yorkshire ripper (Peter Sutcliffe). The way things are he will be released before Gary. If anyone wants to write to Gary the address is:

    Gary Critchley B39969
    H.C.C.H.M Prison
    Gartree
    Leicestershire
    LE16-7RP

  236. Penguin Says:

    The following statement below from Glyn Maddocks, the solicitor handling Gary’s case:

    Gary welcomes and appreciates all contact from those who were living in Campbell Buildings in the early 1980’s or knew people who were there or who may have knowledge of the events that led to the murder of Edward McNeil.
    Gary has served 28 years in prison for this crime for which he is innocent and needs anyone who can help to provide fresh evidence to clear his name to come forward. If requested any evidence provided will be treated confidentially. For practical reasons Gary cannot respond to each individual contact but thanks everyone who makes contact – any information however trivial or insignificant it may seem could perhaps be of vital importance.

    Some of Gary’s writing has now been uploaded – some poems and excerpts from his letters……..

    http://www.b39969.org.uk/index.html

  237. Julie Says:

    thanks again penguin

  238. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Anybody else think that this is not really a sufficient way to express our dissatisfaction with what Gary’s gone through? Writing to MPs is good but, call me an old hippy if you will, I think we can get some sort of a demo together between us, can’t we?

    How many people can you get from where you live to come up to London and tell people this is wrong? Get it organised and get some media along.

    I’ll bet 20 of my peeps from Portsmouth for a start… Who’ll beat that?

  239. Michelle Says:

    I can beat that! let me know where and when!

  240. Penguin Says:

    Does anyone out there recognise the man described below at all? His daughter wants to meet him for possibly the first time in over a quarter of a century.

    “My names Sian and I was born in north London in 1983.

    I believe you may have known (or know of someone that knows) my Dad.

    We have never met and I don’t think he even knows I exsist.

    I’m not going for any shock tactics. But I’m a 26 year old, with 2 kids, getting no joy from my Mother, as she was a 19yr old single mum. And as far as she’s concerned, she did her bit, so why should he get to meet me now?

    This is a real long shot, but I’ll describe him anyway and give the (very vague) details I’ve been able to gather:

    His name is Steve (maybe Steve Cooper), AKA Crazy or Strange. From Tufnell Park and would hang around Freightliner farm sometimes.

    He has a tattoo of a spider web covering his head, two swallows on his neck. Both arms covered in tattoos and he may have had “cut here” on his neck, which may had been covered.

    He had a pretty impressive Mohican too apparently.

    Sorry, it’s not much to go on. But if you’ve got any clue where he might be, or just put the word out, it would be much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance”,

    Sian J

  241. gary critchley Says:

    hello, julie and wendy if you are reading this it’s me gary, i’ve just found out that i can contact the site from here in the hospital. so i hope that maybe in the future i may be able to contact and reply to you all direct from here :-). all the best gary. now officially barking mad.

  242. John Says:

    Does anybody know who or where this guy is now? http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/sb10064412v-001.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=38FCB2103A208D7707770B5D9D4F82B51C8B733DE2CC9794CF7BE591B3A7B705D4B40B3E875A785D

  243. John no last name Says:

    I think I saw him the other day working in Barclays bank on Church street in Stoke Newington, or was it the local flower shop.

  244. Martin C Says:

    He hit the big time in ’87 when he was designated cover star for the school fashion bible, “Inhalants” – http://seagullscreamingkillherkillher.blogspot.com/2009/09/book-review-inhalants-by-mark-pownall.html

    Regarding glue – sorry if this is sexist, but this girl has the foxiest haircut ever (well, next to beehives and the Mel & Kim ‘FLM’ LP shot) – she’d have made a great cover star for the book too – http://www.derekridgers.com/index/module/media/pId/102/id/1140/category/gallery|documentary|street7788/start/27/Glue-sniffing;-Soho;-1981;-sub.html

  245. Nic Says:

    The lady sniffing glue was in one of the early issues of I.D. magazine (issue 2 perhaps?), if I’m not mistaken…

  246. Penguin Says:

    For folk who used to squat Campbell Buildings back in 1980, and any other interested parties, there is now a colour photograph of said building and an insert photo of one of the squats uploaded on the post above courtesy of Martin C. Daves original sepia photo of Campbell Buildings is still on the post but relegated to further down the text.

    The colour photo is from the ‘Inhailants’ book that Martin linked to on a couple of comments above this one.
    If you hit the link and then hit the C.B. picture on that blog the picture comes up really big, so you may even recognise folk in the squat with all the punk band names grafitied on the wall.

  247. John Says:

    I’m really trying to find out who these 2 guys names are somebody must know surely :

    First one is an English Skinhead from the 80′s I’m not to sure how old he is on the film but he will definitely be 40+ who is he? What is his name?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvGEeOR4toc I heard he’s called Pat Dasso can anybody confirm it?

    The second I heard is Andy and got the cross removed and grew his hair…
    http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/84877338.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548A6F87117FB19F9F40D6768DF13B768B39A6F132D85725E2B

    He looks a right rough lad there!

    Anybody confirm any of this? Thanks

  248. Penguin Says:

    John, how comes you are trying to contact all these boneheads? You writing a book or something?
    Pat is discussed on some of the comments above I seem to remember either by Kerr or Sam in July 2009. Look around that month on the comments above.

    The other picture is taken on August bank holiday weekend 1981 in Margate and was featured in Sounds music paper of that week.

  249. John Says:

    No I’m not trying to write a book just very curious how there lives have turned out.

    I still class them as skinheads not boneheads… no racism in either of the photos.

    Can anybody confirm who the two blokes are?

  250. Sam Says:

    The second bloke was pretty well known and I very much doubt if he was a strong advocate of a multi-racial Britain. I forget his name but I always suspected the great film ‘Made in Britain’ was based on this bloke. Having lived in the States for 16 years and put up with Americans’ often ridiculous stereotypes of English people, I’m strongly tempted to get a ‘Made in England’ tattoo. I’m thinking this could now be seen in some kind of Post-Modern context.

  251. John Says:

    When you mean well known what do you mean exactly? I’m just very curious…I live in Scotland so I don’t really know what it was like to be around at that time…

    Does anybody know who the actual first guy is?

    Where these facial tattoos common or just the ood ones who did it?

  252. Sam Says:

    He was well known in the ‘skinhead community’(a small hamlet of thatched cottages and leafy lanes close to Limehouse). Keith Jones, who died several years ago knew him. Facial tattoos became quite common in the early eighties, mainly amongst the ‘glue sniffing community’. But, tattoos were not the fashion statement they are today and there was still a sense that you were committing yourself to some idea for life. Unfortunately (or fortunately in many cases) we all change and a mate of mine found himself studying nuclear engineering with a prominant ‘Fuck Society’ on his right hand. I found myself playing bluegrass banjo in the southern US with ‘Anti Christ’ (complete with upside down cross) on my left arm. This is now covered up with an anonymous Celtic design. I often think that the previous one will come bursting through one day, Alien style and reclaim its territory. I do still have my ‘Heretics’ one on my right shoulder which I’m quite proud of.

  253. John Says:

    So do you think of the guys in the gallery above made anything of there lifes? Like this ‘Bonner’ was he a complete waste of life or did he end up with wife, kids, job, etc?

    Do you ever see the skinheads with that cross on the forehead still?

    And when you say commit for life well as long as you have the cash you can get them removed and its so good today there dont even leave scars.

    I’m just very curious on how Pat Dasso’s life turned out – do you think them tattoos on his face (web,spider,cross) was he an ex-jail bloke or what?

    Does anybody know anything about him?

  254. John Says:

    I’ve done some more research on the skins from the 80s and found 35 photos of Bonner some with and some without his face tattoos.

    Anybody have any idea who this is?
    http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/sb10064412x-001.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=38FCB2103A208D7705C00801ADC8A6691C8B733DE2CC9794F8F69449A66D1657D4B40B3E875A785D
    I really do wonder if these guys made anything of there lifes or actually ruined it

    What does the cross on the forehead even mean anyways? Surely these guys aint religious, lol…

  255. Chris L Says:

    Last I heard Bonner was the face of Dior L’Homme and the chap with the dragon tattooed down the side of his face above was a professor of Classics at Cambridge University. In fact most of the skinheads who used to hang about Piccadilly, sniffing glue and rolling tourists went on to be great social achievers and pivotal figures in the industry and commerce of the nation.

  256. John Says:

    What about Pat Dasso?

    I find his tattoos very intresting and actually think there look cool, I really wonder how he has got in with his life cause all of these are now 40+ probably.

    Chris can you help me a bit and tell me what does the cross actually mean is it racist or not?

    I wonder if any of these regret any… I’m trying to find out more about this Pat Dasso guy I would love to take him for a pint and ask him what made him get them and what there mean to him, was he a glue sniffer or what?

    I’ve researched even more on Bonner he took part in British Movement rallys, NF rallys, everything… what a guy eh!

    How do these guys still get jobs with these tattoos on the face what actual options are open for them?

    Pint collecting is that? :-)

  257. Sam Says:

    Pat Dasso used to hang around my school. I laughed out loud when you asked ‘was he a glue sniffer?’. Never not out of his head and his skin had developed scales last time I saw him. I very much doubt if he’s still alive. Regarding the ‘statement for life’ thing. there were no easy ways to remove these things until quite recently. My mate had his ‘Fuck Society’ removed with some painful acid treatment in the eighties but it left a very visible scar.
    Without knowing most of them John, I’d take an educated guess that most of these people were complete cunts and quite possibly still are. Bullys or bullied kids acting hard.

  258. Chris L Says:

    John, I was joking :-)
    I’d imagine most of these folk will be dead.
    Getting your face tattood if pretty much the ultimate nihilistic statement and suggests a) you really do not give a fuck about your future life – in which case it is highly unlikely you will live out your ‘three score years and ten’, or b) you are so thick you’ll probably end up doing something mental which will either get you killed or locked up for a very long time.
    Sometimes you see photos of these daft teenagers in the early 80s with tats across their mugs and you think “you poor, stupid cunt”. But then you see they have BM/NF etc tattoos on their arms and think “No, fuck you. You’re probably long gone and society’s a better place for it”.

  259. John Says:

    I know what you mean by the BM/NF etc tattoos but surely if somebody wants to get his/her face it’s up to them because lots of celebs have facial tats like kat von d, michelle mcgee, birdman, lil wayne, mike tyson, lee priest, boy george, there all getting on well with there lifes…

    Sam how old was actually Pat Dasso when he got these done because on the video on youtube he looks about 18-20 am I about right?

    And Chris the ones who have ‘MADE IN ENGLAND’ across his forehead on the youtube video is a very young lad definitely but you say you will end up doing something mental and you will get killed or locked up for a very long time, why do you say that?

    People with facial tats I guess will get looks but I doubt very much it makes them unstable or there would get trouble as long as there don’t go around causing trouble it’s not as if there have a swastika like manson does (but hes inside so that makes no difference)

    The laser treatment these days though is so good you can hardly see any scar marking, my pal had a tattoo on his back removed.

  260. Martin C Says:

    I think the cross just refers to ‘crucified skinhead’ (ie – ‘crucified by society’), John. Pretty apt for today of all days…

    Bonner’s tats seem to be modelled on the mummified Maori head plate in ‘Moby Dick’ (while the blotch on his nose reminds me of Baron Samedi).

    Mark Manning (Zodiac Mindwarp) wrote a really interesting about ‘ard nut tattoos here – http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=157103011&blogId=253197904 – I think that might apply to some of the facial tats brigade.

    Or was it just cos everyone thought there’d be a nuclear war along in a couple of weeks, and it wasn’t worth considering the possibility of future job interviews?

  261. alistairliv Says:

    The Mark Manning (Zodiac Mindwarp) link is a good one. But not so sure about the nuclear war idea. Of more immediate impact was the economic situation in the late seventies/ early eighties.

    There was the cross UK collapse of manufacturing industry (which I experienced directly at London Rubber) which led to the loss of thousands of jobs and took the heart out of the working class communities and culture that had been created by those jobs. I remember how shocked everyone at London Rubber was when the Lesney factory in Hackney closed in 1982 – and it was just one of many.

    In east London there was also the impact of the shift to containerisation on the docks. The Millwall and India Docks closed in 1979 and the Royals in 1981. See http://www.bardaglea.org.uk/docklands/9-the-end.html

    Suddenly for thousands of working class parents and kids there was no future. Or as the Communist manifesto put it in 1848:

    Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.

  262. Sam Says:

    Pat was about 18 – 20 when I knew him. If he’s not dead he must be in a loony bin somewhere. You never can tell though. How old are you John? Just interested as tattoos just weren’t trendy then at all. Definitely a prison/hard nut thing to do. I think the nihilism comment above is about right. “I’m already dead” was the mood.

  263. Chris L Says:

    Martin, nah, crosses on the forehead/between eyebrows are a universal thing, a veritable United Stamp of the Nut-Job. You just have to look at those Russian tattoo books. Doubt any of the toothless old lags in there are exactly au courant with Micky French’s monographic iconography.

    John: dunno how old you are but there really is an ocean of difference between the late 70s/early 80s and what hitherto ‘outrageous’ aspects of appearance (visible tattoos/piercings other than ears) are now so homogenised and culturally emasculated to the extent prime time celebs you mention barely turn a head.

    To put things in perspective even up till the mid/late 1980s any tattoo other than a nice little design on the upper arm was regarded as pretty wild and I STILL remember how MENTAL i thought the first person I ever saw with a ring through his nose looked. Perhaps most surprising of all even as late as 1990 it was regarded as well bizarre to have a *shaved head* something apart from Kojak I think I had only ever seen on weirdos at Psychic TV, Test Dept gigs and suchlike.

    Believe me, things are very very different today to what they were back then. When the first punks started getting mohican haircuts that even received coverage in the tabloids – now you’d have to be like that daft ‘leopard man’ or those geeks who get subcutaneous implants to give themselves horns to get a write-up, let alone even turn a head on Camden High St.
    The only person I have ever been good friends with who had any facial tats used to be a skinhead when he was in a children’s home and had the full works; cross on forehead, tears under eyes, ‘cut here’ on neck. Which was all the more bizarre as he was a quite stunningly good looking lad (did quite a few big modelling campaigns, Gautier, Vidal Sassoon, Bacardi etc – needless to say with his tats airbrushed out). He was a DJ at the club I ran and also became a rather big time drug dealer. Despite everything he had going for him he had an almost heart-breaking fatalism and genuinely Did Not Give A Fuck about his life or future. Therefore not all that surprising, tho still very saddening to hear after finishing one prison sentence he went straight back to dealing, got caught and committed suicide before he was sentenced. Tragic.

    But he was a quite exceptional case. I doubt many other former skinheads adorned with pen + ink tattoos would have had world class DJing talents or catwalk model looks so all the more reason why I very much doubt many of them would still be around today, not even taking into consideration the attendant dangers of living on the street, solvent abuse etc.

    BTW, Interesting some of the YouTube comments under some of those skinhead clips you linked to, ‘Derek’ and his amature films indeed…..

  264. Penguin Says:

    John, how old are you?
    I assume you must be pretty young by some of the questions you are asking and by some of the names you dropped in one of the comments above. Tell me if I am wrong.

    In 1980 and the years following, these boneheads were to be avoided at all cost, we would cross the street to avoid them or better still find an alternative route so we would not have to get past them. They and their ilk were, as Chris has pointed out, nililistic to the extreme, living from one disasterous day to another. Just about.
    The facial tattoed punk or skinhead would be the cream of the gang in any town or city in the UK, and thus most likely the ‘leader’ of that gang. They would almost all have been runaways from their parent(s) or care homes, possibly through some kind of abuse suffered at those places and end up in towns and cities homeless and quickly falling upon the squats or charitable rest houses for the night. Mostly these gangs would terrorise the local area, and most would be pinned out on glue, achohol and speed (all cheap and easy to get) leading up to barbs and opiates (not so easy to get).
    You seem to give the impression that they should not be treated as racist because you see no proof on t shirts or back drops on whatever photos or videos you upload on the sites you browse…Fair enough, but these people did have a violent streak which would include hassling asians, homosexuals, blacks and punks physically and in some cases, very seriously, setting fire to property where the above dwelled etc etc.
    Most of these people you mentioned (and we need Kerr in on this one) would not have made anything of their lives, they are and will forever be classed as unemployable by council job centres and on benefits, in prison, in half way houses under curfews if released from prision, on council sex offender registers, being returned to prison, or dead.
    You wanting to have a pint with any of these elite boneheads if you ever catch up with them is admitedly quite gracious, but probably rather niave. You certainly should not bring them back to meet your mother.
    Would you get a facially tattooed US Orange County skinhead just out of detention over the pond a drink and discuss his politics and lifestyle?
    The UK skinheads led the way for the US skinheads in the same way the England football hooligans from the 1970 and 1980′s led the way for German, Italian and South American firms. The old UK order in both these aspects have an almost godlike status from likeminded hooligans all over the world that have followed the ‘examples’ that these people led and tried to ‘improve’ the 1970′s and 1980′s UK model. Nothing to be proud of.
    These likeminded people no doubt will share the same fate as the UK counterparts in some way or another, early death through violence, drugs, homelessness etc and probably some may get ill with H.I.V. or Hep for instance. In prision at least they get shelter and food.

    Please do not confuse the 1980s UK skinhead with cobwebs inked onto his face with todays footballers, popstars and celebraties getting inked (which admitedly seems to be more popular in 2010) thirty years on. I see middle class schoolchildren on local buses with nose rings and tattoos nowadays and think back to myself how things have become more acceptable to schools, parents and society in general. In 1980 though it was much much different.

  265. Penguin Says:

    Blimey, Sam, Chris and myself all writing similar comments at around the same time John. Believe me this was not organised by the three of us! :-)

  266. John Says:

    I’m 20 and just reading up all about these young lads and what there actually life is like now.

    There is several young guys even my age with the cross in the forehead.

    Sam was Pat in prison? Are them actually prison tattoos or did he just get them because he was hard fucker?

    I take a shine on Pat them tats look fairly cool in my opinion but do you think when he was younger he gets stared at and avoided branded as a ‘thug’ basically?

    I read the wiki page of ‘Skinhead’ and says in the 80s most skins got the face or forehead tattooed with stuff associated with skin symbols but where on earth have spider and a tattoo got to do with it?

    Also Sam if you don’t mind me asking was Pat a CB lad or which part of London was he from? Where is West Hampstead exactly?

    So out of all the guys on the photos have all of them basically just died? :S

    What about that Bonner and Belsen now are there still knocking about?

    Also is this Pat again on this photo : http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/Boneheads/?action=view&current=facialtat8.jpg

    Was all the guys who did the facial tattoos into NF etc, why of all places did there tattoo there face and I’ve also read previous posts saying there have kids etc, who will go out with someone with these kind of tattoos on the face?

    Do any of you guys see any of these lot still about today?

    Sam do you remember Pat Dasso from school too what was he like?

  267. John Says:

    You’re also saying don’t bring them back to my house.. why not?

    Why judge someone because of there first impression?

    It is what is on the inside not outside.

  268. Chris L Says:

    Actually there IS an old looking (looks late 40s to me) punk guy I have seen at a few gigs (he was at PIL at the Electric Ballroom earlier this year) and also in Camden a few times recently who has a spiders web on his cheek and stuff on his forehead. The tats are so old and blurred it’s difficult to make out what they originally were though. He reminded me a bit of ‘Hurricane’ Higgins (as he is now) ie really battered and beaten looking… not exactly someone you’d bet much on to cross the finishing line in a marathon anyway. I only noticed him because he has the old facial tats, clearly having got them in his youth and you DO NOT see many ‘survivors’ of his ilk about. There used to be another oddball around Camden who had a butterfly tattood on his forehead but was otherwise fairly normal looking, maybe a bit hippyish in fact. Deffo a freakazoid tho.
    John, I think you should start up a blog about this topic and post up all the photos you’ve found on t’net. Maybe if any of these characters are still about they will contact you?
    And surprised you hadn’t found this, third comment if you google his name:

    >>>theres a bloke called pat dasso who lives in west hampstead. he was a skin in the 70′s and had a spider web on the face tattoo. he used to sniff glue and terrorise all the kids. we used to like him because he was a chelsea supporter… i see him hanging around quiet alot now, hes got a couple of kids and seems like a gentle sort. probably not the brightest pick of the bunch though<<<

    Well I Never… (etc)

  269. John Says:

    I tryed searching ‘pat dasso’ on google couldnt find anything I don’t think – where is that of?

    I would love to contact Pat to be honest, how do I start a topic about him?

    I really am curious about him and people say web is prison tattoo I wonder if he’s been to prison.

  270. Chris L Says:

    >>>You’re also saying don’t bring them back to my house.. why not?<<<

    I dunno, sometimes there's just something about some people that might indicate that perhaps they might not be the best of houseguests:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5951708-504083.html

    or the best of companions to grab a bite to eat with

    http://www.belch.com/blog/2007/06/25/racist-tatooed-freak-kills-guard/

    ;)

  271. John Says:

    Oh c’mon Chris I don’t mean them absolute morons, I’m not racist I don’t believe in any of that shit, but I just think these guys with the face tattoos should at least not be judged on first appearance that is stereotyping and is wrong.

    If Pat Dasso was a skin in the 70s that means on the video thats the 80s, he is 50+ not 40+ so he proves that you still do survive with them, face tattoos arnt hardly life changing not like them idiots who you showed me.

    Can you confirm that Pat is also the guy in that Tommy and such and such in the photo?

    If people got his tattoos now, what will there be judged as? I’m just very curious and if I don’t ask I don’t find out.

  272. Penguin Says:

    John, you seem to be incredibly stubborn in your ‘curiousity’ and in your searching out of these 1980′s boneheads (sorry upstanding citizens, must not judge people as they were then, now) and one of them in particular, but honestly mate they were bad news, and I would be very surprised if their mental outlook has changed drastically. Why not keep up the search on a more relevant site than this KYPP one. I am sure there are 1980s skinhead site forums for instance. E.D.L, B.N.P or Combat 18 would definately be there and possibly have forums included in the site with subject matter in the area that you are interested in (and no, I do not have links to help your curiousity, use google). I hope you find what you are looking for. I hope you invite them all to your parents home. I hope you all have a great time together. Knock yourself out!

  273. baron von zubb Says:

    most of the boneheads were indeed bad news…sam, jah pork, pat dasso and some others were the exceptions. some of them, hopefully are suffering a great deal for what they did as far as i know pat dasso is dead. i heard this years ago. found dead in a squat in that bunch of council houses (further up lymington fd than 18c sam) opposite the playing feild in lymington rd west hampstead. thats the area between kilburn and hampstead village john. post code nw2/nw6. if you want to invite anyone in to your house john, i strongly advise you to check it out it with the folk here who are, now, all cool people.(we were a lil bit mad then….
    chris,can you chase james vice on a ‘gary crithchley’ article?
    hope everyone is superfab. j

  274. Martin C Says:

    In an ideal world, people with facial tats wouldn’t be judged, and having a load of Maori swirls across your chops shouldn’t disqualify you from doing any job you’re good at. However, in an ideal world, I’d be 6 foot 2, stunningly handsome and related to a generous, eccentric billionaire called Lord Rodney.

    If you’re interested in ‘Belsen’, I have a copy of a now defunct Sunday paper magazine (Correspondent) from 1990, which has an interview with him and two punk girls who used to share bedsits in Earls Court in 1983. He has hair and an arty beard, and he talks about his past, including squatting in Waterloo, homelessness, smack addiction and having kids. If anyone’s really interested, I could send it to Penguin or Al to scan it, s’pose…

  275. Martin C Says:

    Oh, and I actually got a copy of ‘Trash Can’, which is ace – only drawback was the omission of this great piece Bob wrote, called ‘Halloween ’79′ – it used to be online (on the 3am site, I think?) but can’t find it now – if he’s still reading, any plans to publish this at a later date? Cheers

  276. Bob Short Says:

    I’ve been avoiding writing comments on this page because I have no interest about men with facial tattoos. I have no interest in any project to make buddies with them. I remember what they did and I don’t like them. However, this weekend I seem to have thirty or so messages in my in box. It was nice to see a message from Martin C who I hope is Cobb. Haven’t heard from you in a while so hello! The Halloween piece is available in the book entitled “Filth”. If you’re still in Melbourne, I think “Off the Hip” has copies. Mojo in Sydney certainly does and Off the Hip does a pal act with them. One piece that KYPP should consider putting up on line is Martin’s “Yoakley Road” thing. I laughed so hard when I read it, I almost cried. Martin is a damn fine writer. Now I will vanish again. Clearly, I’m still out here watching.

  277. John Says:

    Penguin I know who them edl are I’ve seen them on the news just drunk hooligans that like trouble but you say pat dasso is dead but earlier up people say hes still alive and well with kids?

    I’m intrested in this Belsen thing to Martin C, is Belsen still living or what?

    Why are these called boneheads not skinheads what has these young lads got to do with nazi stuff that Pat Dasso was wearing a union jack t-shirt in the video, how does that mean he’s racist?

    I read up somebody said people would cross the road etc if you seen these guys, are these people intimidating or what?

    When you say there ‘bad news’ what do you mean by that?

    Also I wouldn’t mean literally bring them back to my house, I mean go into a pub for a pint and ask them about there life I’m very curious.

  278. Penguin Says:

    That chapter is in his other book ‘Filth’ Martin:

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=474

    Check the bottom of this post for details.

  279. Penguin Says:

    John, I will put this very politely.
    Can you please take your ‘very curious’ stance somewhere the fuck else please?
    You are obviously just posting comments on this site for a wind up.
    Well done. Now go and get a life yeah?

  280. John Says:

    No Penguin, I’m not I never lived where these guys lived (down south) if I was to be taking the piss I’d be saying shit which I’m not I am just curious on these peoples turn out of life why do you have to be so naive? :S

    I just want to know what is the difference between a ‘skinhead’ and a ‘bonehead’ and how these 40-50+ guys are today.

    Don’t use bad attitude man I’m only being friendly there is guys on this bit that can help me there was around at this time.

  281. Penguin Says:

    The word ‘curious’ comes up for the upteemph time.

    Browsers please ignore this guy and he will eventually go away.

    He is a wind up. lol@msn.

  282. Martin C Says:

    Bob – nah, I’m not that Martin, sorry! But thanks for the info, will check out ‘Filth’.

  283. John Says:

    Penguin yes I use that email I don’t want to disclose my personal info or have notifications for when I get replys.

  284. Sam Says:

    If you’re genuinely interested John, I don’t think Pat was of white Anglo Saxon stock. Could have been of Greek, Indian or Italian extraction. One of my few memories of Belsen is helping him strip a squat of copper piping and going off to sell it as scrap. We had an argument regarding whether The Jam were a mod band or not. He used ‘All Mod Cons’ as conclusive proof, whilst I disagreed. Why this has stuck in my head along with a lot of other pointless, 30 year old ephemera I do not know.

  285. Sam Says:

    Just enlarged the CB photo and it’s my opinion that the people in the punky punky room are not in Campbell Buildings. Who are the 2 ladies on the right who look like social workers? I don’t recognize anyone, though the girl sitting down far left looks a bit like NZ Debbie who played bass at the time.

  286. Julie Says:

    Hi all of Gary’s friends and those of you wanting to help campaign to clear his name and obtain his freedom.

    Wendy and I spent over two hours today with Gary at Rowan House. He is a lovely chap as we had already realized from all of the letters we have received from him and he talked non-stop and very eloquently indeed.

    He is alright though very thin, not like some of us out here, and appreciates very much everything you are all doing for him, your thoughts, prayers and deeds.

    We are waiting to hear from Carol (recently wrote here above) regarding campaign ideas.

    You may write to Gary and even phone him should any of you wish to speak directly with him just @mail me and I’ll pass on his phone number.

    We don’t really know what happens next but he is in a better place right now and the time has come for us to act.

    We hope to meet up with Glyn, Gary’s solicitor in the near future, probably in London and I’ll let you know as if any of you wish to join us please do so, the more the better.

    Gary does not remember Carol so can you remind him from when/where you know him.

    We took him loads of stuff, clothes, art books, edibles etc and he’ll let us know of any other things he could do with but he now has a TV and is getting on with painting. We want to take him a CD player and he will be allowed to receive shop bought CD’s.

    Please do not give up on Gary, he does not deserve having spent all this time in very difficult places and we must prevent him at all costs being sent back behind bars.

    If any of you would like to visit him there is no problem at all, perhaps just the distance. Rowan House is just beyond Norwich but I think it can be done by train and then taxi if you do not have a car.

    Looking forward to hearing from you and enjoy the rest of the Easter.

    Julie

  287. dave Says:

    the picture above is definately not c.b

  288. Penguin Says:

    The outside photo in colour Dave or the insert room photo? Or both?

  289. Sam Says:

    I think both.

  290. Penguin Says:

    OK dokey, in that book link it stated it was C.B. I will remove the picture later on tonight and replace it with Dave’s original one.

  291. dave Says:

    outside definately isnt inside doesnt look like it either
    interestingly or not one of the pics on you tube of cb isnt cb there was no lifts
    the lift looks more like the one in lambeth north tube stn

  292. Sam Says:

    Every flat in CB I remember having those bar electric heaters. The interior shot seems to have radiator. Just call me Shorlock fuckin’ Hermes (to quote Sid the Sexist).

  293. Chris Low Says:

    Actually, to solve this, if Martin C. is about there is a (quite remarkable) photo in that ‘Inhalants’ book which, if I recall correctly, says “A Sniffer’s Corner” and he could upload here. It is the back of what I take to be the building in the colour photo above – but looks really like some of the old Eastern Berlin buildings that used to overlook the wall/Checkpoint Charlie. Horrible and bleak as fuck.
    There are also some figures in the photo. Unfortunately tiny and dwarfed by the pigeon shit pebble-dashed walls they’re standing beside, but I do remember them looking a bit ‘punky :-)

  294. Penguin Says:

    OK Daves photo of the real CB up heading the post again. The imposter photo of CB has been slung away.

  295. Martin C Says:

    “Imposter photo’, ha ha! Sorry if anyone got the impression I was leading them on, the CB reference was just a throwaway comment cos it sounded good at the time, and I only put the link up here for the guy who was asking loads of questions about where Bonner ended up.

    Yeah Chris, that bleak pic’s in there, but I don’t have a scanner and it’d look absolute crap if I took a photo of it (like the others do). But I know a man who has, so if you want, I’ll try and get a large pic of it next time I hit him up for loads of scans (you’re right, the kids look miniscule).

    Most of these pics would have been sourced randomly from photo libraries by the publisher’s art guy (probably with three deadlines kicking off at once) and shouldn’t be taken seriously (in the fake CB pic, they’re just sitting round smoking fags, not a glue bag in sight!). Most likely a case of, “Shit, need more pics…I know, stick some punks in”. There was a whole series of these books dedicated to various drugs and the Heretics were in one, but I’m not 100% sure now whether it was Amphetamines or Alcohol.

  296. Martin C Says:

    Oh, and in the Sniffer’s Corner pic they’re just smoking too!

  297. Chris Low Says:

    Pathetic!
    Actually, when I was working for LiveTV the ‘stock’ footage they always used to use at the beginning of any new items about the evils/legislation of cannabis was film of my hands rolling a joint. Just for a bark, before it was shot, I also pawed in the flower bed outside the studios so my nails would look grubby and marker-penned an anarchy sign between my thumb and first finger.
    For “news” stories about feral kids/underage drinking etc we just went out, found some kids, bought them some bottles of alcopops and told them to stand about swigging their drinks, spitting and aimlessly kicking the wall and fence along the road.
    I imagine most stock image library shots employ similar artifice in their set-up. Still, you should have seen what we did for stories on the perils of under-age sex! :-)
    Anyway… have you ever tried searching amazon/abe books etc for the publisher of that series of books? Might turn up trumps. The copy I picked up of the book was ex-libris, as I noticed most of the others were.

  298. Penguin Says:

    Hi Martin, please do not think the ‘imposter’ tag was aimed in any way towards you! It was me that made the mistake after seeing the photo and the text below on the website.
    http://seagullscreamingkillherkillher.blogspot.com/2009/09/book-review-inhalants-by-mark-pownall.html
    Assumed it was CB myself as the text seemed to state was directly under the photograph.
    Us THFC supporters need a hug right now. Big hug?

  299. Martin C Says:

    Gawd, tell me about it…made worse by the fact I know a Pompey fan who’s incapable of shutting his trap about, “Ooh, you’re only doing well cos you nicked Twitchy and all our best players”. Still, there’s always tomorrow night…

    Chris – I had a browse around for the others after finding ‘Inhalants’ in a charity shop. Problem is few of the online copies have accompanying jacket scans, so it’s hard to tell which subculture they’re featuring! They probably just regurgitated the exact same text, only sourcing stock pics of ravers in the ’90s editions, or hoodies last decade…

    Cue snapshot of sweaty-faced punters, gurning at Megatripolis. Caption: “Solvents can lead to disturbing and frightening hallucinations”

  300. Chris Low Says:

    If they were at ‘megatripolis’ they were probably grasping at anything inhalable to attain a state of auditory hallucination and thus escape.

  301. Martin C Says:

    Arf arf!

  302. baronvonzubb Says:

    pat dasso was as far as i know anglo indian. last time i saw him he was doing good, working in the green grocers in west end lane 81/82 then heard he was in and out of friern barnet (local mental hosp) then heard he was deceased. but my memories hazy 25 yrs ago. if folk have got more up to date info then maybe they are right. my first memories of him was when he lived in a shed on fortune green. in that part of west hampstead there were only 2 boneheads. him and terry madden. mr madden went to join the provisionals in n ireland. last seen in west end lane older, fatter and bedecked with gold jewelery 10/15 years ago, but still with a reasonably decent sarcastic wit. he was a self proclaimed NF member, myself an ‘anarchist’ we got on well despite that. I mention terry madden because he was ‘suggs’ mentor, yes that suggs who went on to be mr madness & tv personailty.

  303. baronvonzubb Says:

    and how did this this thread get onto pat dasso. I cant find any pics of him. and i cant remember him having any facial tatoos either. he gets a mention after a pic of some other guy. or am i being, as per normal, a doh??

  304. luggy Says:

    Remember seeing Madness at the Rock Garden, wasn’t impressed with the amount of sieg-heiling going on between Chas Smash on stage and the audience.

  305. Sam Says:

    I’d forgotten about Terry Madden Jake. Another local football hooligan was Mick Mahoney who went on to be a playwright.

  306. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    The guy, in the youtube vid which sparked the bizarrely obsessive ‘Where is Pat Dasso?’ meme is Kev McG******k, who is now apparently dead. He had a shorter stouter brother called John who also had spider tatts and later became a punk. They were part of the Carnaby/Dilly/Square postcard skins who were basically despised by the wider bonehead community. Surprisingly, a high percentage of the face tatt crowd survived, although laser surgery was later made mandatory by the probation service, I believe.

    Mick M. was indeed a well-known face who used to hang about with a bunch of Millwall hard cases in the Coleherne, of all places, from time to time. I was quite tight, briefly, with one of the younger brothers who comprised that firm. Most of them were from around the Aylesbury estate in Sarf London. (Wasn’t Mick originally from Islington?)

    Now, talking of old faces, does anyone remember a legless black tuinal dealer on a skateboard that used to hang around the Dilly in the late 70s/early 80s and batter the living shit out of skins, propelling himself out of the crowds at high velocity with these huge gloves on his hands? It was arguably the bizarrest thing I have ever witnessed in our capital. Weirdly, like pilot fish and dangerous sharks, he developed a bizarre symbiosis with the local bonehead regulars, who used him as a tactical ploy to weed out hangers-on. But the sound of that skateboard still haunts me on certain nights. I am convinced however that he is one of the elect and will someday reside at the Demiurge’s right hand.

  307. Penguin Says:

    Ahhh, lovely. Welcome back Kerr, it’s been too long. Virtual handshake sent to you.

  308. Sam Says:

    He may have been from Islington Kerr but I went to primary school with him and his brothers. My claim to fame is that Mick destroyed this steamship I’d made out of corn flake boxes and toilet rolls outside my infant school when I was waiting for my mum. It was my pride and joy and stuffed full of tiny bits of shiny wrapping paper as treasure. The fucker saw me with it, kicked it from underneath and it broke into several bits, showering its booty all over me. Then he stomped off and I cried all the way home. My other Mahoney memory was either him or his older brother scoring this fantastic header in the school playground. I can see him still – 1971, shock of red hair, four feet off the ground, legs tucked underneath his body, wicked crack of the head…back of the net. Why this image has stayed with me I don’t know. I remember his family as huge so it may not have been him. Didn’t know he was Millwall. Most kids round our way supported Chelsea, Arsenal or QPR.
    The Dilly was a strange, lawless, subterranean world, though I never had too much to do with it. My mate Mad dog used to do something called ‘The Grand National’ down the escalator there. It was one of the longest escalators in London, still wooden at that time and he’d slide all the way down the central partition, leaping all the ‘Please keep hands clear of the escalator’ signs on the way down, of which there were about twenty. I’d always end up in a heap pissing myself laughing watching this.

  309. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    @Penguin….

    Good to be back, mate. I’ve got a couple of Sid Vicious memorial photos for you that I’ll put up on here later. Loads of odd-looking punks and punkettes in their prime. And some charging skins too.

    @Sam….

    The fact that he was Millwall is why I remember him so well. As you say, a trifle unusual for that neck of the woods. Of course, it’s not entirely improbable he followed a few teams in his youth. People, so inclined, tended to go where the ultra-violence beckoned in those days.

    As for your steamship, I think there is the possibility of a lawsuit there. If that isn’t severe and enduring emotional trauma, then I don’t know what is!

    Yep, the Dilly was a place for the crazy-brave and the irrevocably twisted. My only problem is that it seemed to be twinned with sinister political goings on at Dolphin Court involving grooming of teenage runaways and predatory bumboy depravity. Maybe it was the bad speed but I am sometimes convinced it was all part of some vast MI5 psyops where the rats had been temporarily allowed to take control of the maze. (Actually that reminds me that there was a reasonably articulate yet massively incoherent onetime Dilly transient with a hair bear bunch afro who told stories of gurkhas riding in baker’s vans through darkened London streets ready to assassinate enemies of the status quo at the drop of a kukri. I still pass baker’s vans today with an heir of trepidation. lol.)

  310. Martin C Says:

    Has anyone noticed that when this thread veers back onto boneheads, Tottenham doing well? We should keep this subject running til Saturday morning, and bring up Nicky Crane on the 23rd April.

    “Trash Can” – the book that keeps giving.

  311. baronvonzubb Says:

    sue him sam. i’ll bear witness that the truamatised young mohican that i knew was directly linked to that steam ship destruction day..

  312. Sam Says:

    What a great slo-mo movie shot it’d be though. Big, purple painted boat disected by platform shoe.

    …’predatory bumboy depravity’. Indeed. Robbo told of some fat, aging queen down there who worked for weeks to seduce some innocent minor. Apparently when Robbo enquired of the victim one day the queen in question replied with the classic line; “Fuck it I thought….and fuck it I did”.

  313. Sam Says:

    Was just reminded of the great Pogues song ‘Hot Dogs with Everything’ which is about Soho and the Dilly;

    “Hung around with some slags I know,
    Down St Martin’s school of Art,
    Took an amp and a couple of blues,
    That nearly blew my head apart,

    I was down in the ground in a stinking bog,
    Giving head to a fat old slob,
    Throwing up with his cock in my gob,
    Bleeeeuuurrccchhhh!! Hot dogs with everything.”

  314. danmac Says:

    legless black tuinal dealer battering skinheads – this has to be the imaginatively nicknamed ‘space invader’ or possibly george, stories about him haunted my early secondary school days. black – check, beats up skinheads – check (dropping off walls onto em like the legendary australian drop bear), and he can run faster on his hands than you ever will be able to on your feet. i never laid eyes on him, but one day came across a police van with constables flying out of the back outside our school and allegedly an irate space invader inside…

  315. Chris L Says:

    <<>>

    Classic!! :)

  316. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    “Dropping off walls”? Holy cow, it was worse than I thought! Yeah, that’s him, the ‘space invader’, although he was more like a fucking tarantula when I think about it. In fact, it was the vid of Spider Kev that tripped the old memory switch. Funny you should mention a police van incident involving him, as this stall-holder I knew down the ‘bello also saw the ‘space invader’ get loaded into the back of a police van onetime. “It was rocking so much, I thought Elvis Presley was in the back!” he said afterwards. lol.

  317. Penguin Says:

    Template for contacting MP’s and other officials or media re Gary Critchley.
    Gary Critchley dedicated post is here for up to date news via the comments:

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=3160

    Please cut and paste the document below onto a word document and print it out to send by post or fax.

    Dear …………………,

    I am contacting you regarding Gary Critchley, prisoner no B39969 (A1473AK), convicted of murder in 1981.

    The Judge at the time recommended he serve no more than 9/10 years.

    This is now his 30th year of incarceration. The conviction is unsafe and according to his solicitor one of the worst miscarriages of justice Britain has ever seen (http://www.b39969.org.uk/pdf/private_eye_24July2009.pdf)

    Briefly the case is as follows, however please read the above article for full details.

    Gary allegedly killed a man in 1980. During this murder he sustained frontal lobe damage to his brain, by being hit with a hammer. He also broke his back, ankle and wrist and was found in the street covered in blood.

    The victim sustained more than 20 blows with a hammer.

    The blood on Gary was found to be from his injuries and there was not one speck of the victim’s blood on him.

    The victim was discovered in a room on the upper floor in the building, Gary was found outside on the pavement.

    The only evidence to link Gary to the crime was a trainer, two or three sizes too small for him, on his left foot. On his right foot was his own boot which fitted him.

    Gary apparently killed the victim, avoiding any blood, changed one shoe, hit himself on the head with the hammer, and then jumped out of the window.

    The truth indicates that both Gary and the victim were attacked by a third party, who remains at liberty.

    I feel that this really is a grave miscarriage of justice.

    Unfortunately, this is not a high profile case, merely the case of an ordinary citizen who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. A person who nearly lost his life, but who ended up in prison himself, for something the forensic evidence suggests that he didn’t commit.

    I am asking you to look into this, because I know if you do, you will want to take it further.

    ……………………………………………… Signature.

  318. Taf Says:

    Re the West Hampstead comments..

    Re 80 – 82, I used to work at the Nat West Branch of West Hampstead (102 West End Lane) – I was away from home for the first time (18 and living in Kings Cross) and being a bit homesick, used to have a chat with the Evening Standard Seller who was based near the tube station and the small shop. He was a top guy, intelligent and very kind to me – he also knew some of the skinheads in the area who treated him with nothing other than courtesy. (He died not long after which was a real shame)

    The whole point of this was that one of them had a spiders web on his face, the first time I’d ever seen such a thing – he went by the name of, unusually enough, “Spider” (I think)

    One evening, the bank manager was taking the staff out for a drink and coming towards us in West End Lane was a bunch of skins – the manager told us to cross the road and avoid any eye contact ” from that rable – look at them , they’ve even got their faces covered, they must be insane”. As they approached us, the skins recognised me and as they passed, Spider et al greeted me with a cheery ” Hiya Taf, how are you!!!” The look on the managers face was sublime….

    I’m sure I met his dad in the Railway pub – a down to earth Irish guy…. but my memory could be playing tricks.

  319. Martin C Says:

    Spooky stuff from Ray. When my much older brother (he was ’62, compared to my ’76) used to drink in the Assembly Rooms in Kentish Town during the early ’80s, he had all these anecdotes about some narky legless black bloke they all called ‘Mudhopper’, who used to come in, get blind drunk, and attack drinkers by scooting over and zoning in on their bollocks.

    I went there a fair bit between ’95-’96, mostly as a warm-up for gigs, and, one night, an elderly, legless black guy trundled in, stinking of piss and looking like he’d come out of a council skip (only he was in a wheelchair, not on a skateboard). He started screaming abuse and picking on people and got (violently) wheeled out by the bar staff. Same night we saw The Fall at the Forum, on the Light User Syndrome tour (me and my mate Nick met MES afterwards, and he was pissed off his nut but extremely friendly). No clue whether they’re all the same bloke, or if there were 3 separate legless black geezers doing the rounds.

    Also, regarding Gurkhas in bread vans – even as a little brat, I remember so many urban myths circulating North London at the time. Pre-internet boredom? But it was amazing the way they circulated. One was about the SAS running half the milk floats, apparently they were building up detailed profiles of citizens based on their rounds and orders…it wasn’t just drugged-up hippies saying this, lots of kids at school and older siblings used to joke about it…does anyone remember alligators in the Hampstead-Belsize Park sewers?…another one was that you shouldn’t ever touch an NF poster or sticker because, allegedly, they put rusty razor blades behind each one, to cut and infect anyone who dared scratch them down. By around ’83/’84, the ‘razor blades’ had changed to ‘AIDS-infected hypo tips’. Well, it scared me anyway…

    …until the late ’90s. when I was at a party and somebody told me the exact same story, only the context had switched from NF stickers to prostitute cards in phone booths. Who generated all these urban myths? And how did they spread so quickly?

    (PS- sorry, know this has little to do with KYPP or punk)

  320. alistairliv Says:

    I don’t know Martin – we [KYPP the zine] used to recommend the Illuminatus trilogy as essential reading and it is a compendium of paranoid/OTT urban mythology and conspiracy theories.

    And – if I was a dabbler in post-postmodern socio-media studies theory- I could easily prove that punk was itself the hyper-fetishised concretisation/ totalisation of urbanised myth (AKA mythical urbanism). Was punk itself not an absence, a social void which had only the appearance of actuality, an appearance which was generated by the projection of assumed individuality through the reflection in the mass media of the media lens when focussed on the blank generation?

    That punk (as such) did not exist, it was an urban myth summoned into existence when, rather than responding with shock and horror to the media myth of ‘punk’, a generation of alienated youth redefined their separation from such media narratives by becoming the ‘horror’, the other, the alligator in the sewer, the SAS milkmen and women… thus realising the urban myth by becoming it.

  321. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Agreed, it’s all theatre. Masses of narcotized suburban accountants desperately seeking oblivion and the temporary suspension of fear through the act of becoming Jack Pudding for a day. If it ever made any sense, that is to say if we ever stripped it of fairytales and cosy narratives, then we’d probably all go mad anyway staring at the endless pointless repetition and hard-coded futility of it all. Furthermore, I blame Thomas Aquinas for identifying truth (the act of act conformity between object and statement, statement and idea) with moral rightness and God’s will, instead of, as the pre-Socratic Greeks would have said, with the disclosure or revelation of the thing’s essence itself. A biased and fundamentally flawed epistemology like that just leads to an absurd paradigm based on perpetual truth as correspondence rather than revelation. Apophenia and mass delusion is but a heartbeat away. The whole world therefore vanishes in a Dionysian blur of myth, counter-myth and continual obfuscation.

    Having said all that, if we were the ‘blank generation’ then what does that make the current facebook generation. I heard a bizarre piece of urban Beckett on a 44 bus last year involving two bro’speak yoof engaging in a mobile phone conversation without mobile phones. They were discussing a label on a tin. It went…..

    “Says 28 days, bro’. How many weeks is dat?
    “Dunno. I think it’s about three weeks and a bit.”
    “Okay. But how long is da bit?”
    “Dunno.”
    “Yeah, but you mentioned the bit, bro’. How long is it?”
    “Dunno, not sure. It’s just a bit, innit?”
    “Bro’! You said 3 weeks and a bit, how long is da bit?”
    “I dunno!”
    “Bro’! Not being funny, I’ll go dark on you! How long is da bit?”
    “Bro’, I dunno!”
    “But YOU said 3 weeks and a bit!”…………

    Ad infinitum. For about 20 minutes. Top theatre. I nearly gave them a round of applause for their efforts. But then ‘the bit’ began to worry me. It didn’t help either that both the young fellows had SOUTH THAMES COLLEGE i.d tags suspended from their necks. Who knows, perhaps they were tutors? My overall conclusion is that either London youth are now firmly ensconced in the joys of permanent and irreparable infantile idiocy or I merely had the misfortune to witness a wildly esoteric cryptographic exchange between two elite corps centipedes from the Crab Nebula; disguised as ‘raggas’ to avoid unwanted attention obviously.

    Deconstruct that!

  322. Penguin Says:

    Oh Kerr, you’ve got to write that book you mentioned. You have a certain style of prose which excites me somewhat and the way you describe things generally cracks me up. Glory Glory THFC etc etc.

  323. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    It’s just SE London hyperbole really. There are hundreds of fellas like me walking the streets of Millwall land. I was just well-tutored in the arts of terrace banter; a mere midget perched on the shoulders of giants as they say.

    Besides, I think the book is here on KYPP, isn’t it? Far prefer the contributions and interjections of others, as it keeps me honest. And amused too. Also, my orbit is so elliptical at times that I fear that the cloistered writing life would send me off into spheres best kept hidden and unnamed; places where Martin C’s SAS milk floats make regular deliveries and legless black men drop down from roofs to tell tales of weekend skinhead bashings. Such a disturbing oasis would have little trouble in convincing me to become a permanent resident I fear.

  324. Martin C Says:

    The funny thing is there’s probably a group of bored kids in Kuala Lumpar right now, swearing blind that durian cart vendors are secretly working for Malaysian intelligence…though I think the quality of these myths went way downhill in the 2000s. If the best we can come up with is the “Pussycat Dolls are men” meme, we’re in serious trouble as a species. But the rat’s head in the KFC box, that was real, it happened to my brother-in-law’s sister in Cricklewood.

    Al, I keep meaning to check out the Illuminatus books, but am slightly worried I’ll end up with a third eye biro’d on my forehead and cornering people in supermarkets. But, next time I see them going cheap on Amazon, I’ll bite the bullet and give ‘em a go. I think you should write that thesis, though, sounds interesting. Plus it’ll annoy some of the individuals who believe in ‘REAL PUNK’ and who get so vexed whenever Avril Lavigne appears on TV.

  325. Martin C Says:

    By the way, there was definitely a Committee of Sick Jokes operative in the 1980s. Haven’t a clue where they ended up – or how, 24 hours after the Challenger disaster, everyone in the UK had heard “What does NASA stand for? Need Another Seven Astronauts”. That one spread like a bush fire…

  326. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    The real vexing question is what happened to all the street nutters? Where did all those weatherbeaten disseminators of unwholesome truths and disturbing epiphanies disappear to? Every area of London had about a dozen or so of ‘the crew that never sleeps’ at any given time. And they definitely helped reinforce the idea of difference. And that recognition of difference is but a small step to believing that baker’s vans are indeed teeming with Gurkhas.

    I remember we had one local headcase who either scrawled, with a handy lump of chalk, curses in ancient greek on pavements or wrote them on pieces of paper and stuck them up in trees. He used to beat the bounds of the neighbournood with a large stick during thunderstorms whilst wearing an oversized London transport inspector’s hat on his head that had the words CONDUCTOR emblazoned upon it. The strange thing was that when he vanished all the yuppies moved into the area. I sometimes wish he would return, pied piper like, and lead them all away again! The other strange thing about him was that he actually sparked his own urban myth factory care of a local Greek barber who would tell tales of an alleged illustrious pedigree and disordered nights in Amsterdam taking LSD with pigeons.

    The sheer inventiveness and surreal gimmicks of these latter-day shamen stunned me into a reverent silence even back then. But like white dogshite, they were consigned to oblivion in the 90s through either obscure council ordinances or hideous EU diktats. Why?

  327. alistairliv Says:

    How many weeks in 28 days?
    3 and a bit.
    How long is a bit?

    Good question. Easy for us of the analog generation, but these kids have been digitised. Look at it from a binary pespectve. They are trying to get from 11(3 in binary) to 100 (4 in binary) by adding one bit at at time.

    As wikipedia sez : A bit is the basic unit of information in computing and telecommunications; it is the amount of information that can be stored by a digital device or other physical system that can normally exist in only two distinct states.

    In computing, a bit can also be defined as a variable or computed quantity that can have only two possible values. These two values are often interpreted as binary digits and are usually denoted by the Arabic numerical digits 0 and 1. Indeed, the term “bit” is a contraction of binary digit.

    So how many binary digits are there in a week of seven days?

    Dunno (= does not compute). The two lads were caught up in what Hegel called a ‘bad infinity’ – adding one bit at at time to 3 to give 3.1, 3.11, 3.111, 3.1111- trapped in Zeno’s paradoxical reality.

    The gulf or abyss between analog and digital generations has been rendered musically and visually by BBE as ” 7 days and one week”
    See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpkLcfbOra4

    Note the + sign on the young woman’s underwear and the distortions of reality as her positive or true (digital) self progresses unseen and unknown through the false ( signed by -) analog city.

    Did either of the young men on the 44 bus reveal any similar markings on their (no doubt) visible underwear?

  328. Martin C Says:

    There were some lone nutters still flying the flag in the ’90s, like the White Woman of Camberwell, a black woman who used to wear white bandages, painted her skin completely white and had a Tiny Tears (painted white) strapped to her chest. She also popped up at the ’95 Notting Hill Carnival. Single-handedly responsible for hundreds of speculative urban myths (one was that she was a prostitute who lost her baby and never got over it, I can’t remember the rest but they were inevitably whatever sounded good at the time). Apparently she was called ‘Angel’, but who really knows?

    I also remember a woman who used to hang around the Waterloo station bus lanes, who had a classroom globe with a crucifix glued on the top, a toy snake around her neck and loads of anti-Vatican slogans scribbled down the back of her frock.

    Maybe she was the one who scrawled “SPIDERS EAT CHILD MOLESTERS IN HELL – 666 – SATAN IS A WOMAN” on a Northern Line carriage. I never got my head round that graffito.

  329. slyme68 Says:

    in the graveyard at hackney central there’s a cast metal sign, quite old, on the railings which says;

    “Herabouts for many years was seen BLIND FRED. A sunny soul” and repeats it in braille underneath. i love that sign.

    there should be a blue plaque scheme for street nutters.

  330. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    @Alistair………….NO!!!!!!!!!

    I have made a conscious effort these past few years to escape from the horrors of variable length subnet masking and now you have brought it all back in a wave of Hegelian ‘bad infinity’.

    Just read some earlier parts of this thread that I missed….

    @ Baron VonZubb Re: Bonehead to Convoy Hippy (think we referred to them as ‘brigands’ at the time)

    I think that damascene journey was purely down to pure escapism and ultimate necessity for the most part. There was always going to be a tipping point where the endless allure of violence, probable, if not habitual, incarceration and endemic solvent abuse would lead to a need for physical relocation and some degree of psychological metamorphosis. The basic will to survive, I suppose. What better than the promise of country lanes, fresh air and even whackier and stranger narcotics to facilitate the process? Fashions come and they go too. The London skinhead scene was dead as a dodo by about ’83/’84. Most just became soul boys and/or soccer casuals. The face tatt and west end begging crowd didn’t even have that avenue of escape. Chronic unemployment for most and mental instability for some barred them from football and soul/funk clubs. The politics had changed too. Right wing extremism was slowly being replaced by self-help and loadsamoney. Where could a poor bonehead go but back to the land? Better ask Dave though, he went from white power and glue to hunt sabbing and road protests. Maybe he just stuck out his thumb and a gaily-coloured van pulled up and took him to the promised land in a haze of joss sticks and nepalese temple ball? Actually stuff like that seemed to happen a lot back then. (The hitch-hiking stories I could tell…The best lifts were American airmen – presumably the nuclear tactical wing variety – all slavering drug fiends in full James Dean mode… )

    I suddenly realised, didn’t Nicky Crane do security at Glasto for a few years? Bet he was a lot more touchy-feely than the fascistic cunts who do it now. Not that I’d be seen dead there since the Mutoids and Kings X bus garage lot packed it in. Now those guys knew how to party. Haven’t been since late 80s. But close mate of mine still does all the festivals regular as clockwork. You can only get charlie now apparently from the onsite dealers, mexican mushrooms got taken off the menu years ago. Crying shame. I’d make datura root compulsory for all entrants and build redbeard sensi obelisks that could be seen from the moon. If something’s gotta be done, it should be done properly.

    Talking of insane drug fests and hippies…. I once worked with an ex-pal of Syd Barrett’s. A straggly-bearded geordie who lived in a greenhouse. (Never believed his Syd Barrett claim until I saw a photo of him next to the aforesaid crazy diamond on a BBC doc years later. He was a lovely bloke as he gave me two out of print Kenneth Grant books for free. But I digress…) He used to live at 144 Piccadilly in the glory days of King Mob and before that in Notting Hill with Mr Moorcock and the Hawkwind lot. Coupled with his days panhandling outside the UFO club, he pretty much did the psychedelic rounds. Now his best mate in those days was Twink, of the Pink Fairiers, and he told me that Twink used to carry a bottle of pure liquid LSD-25 and take swigs out of it from time to time. I once calculated that each swig was equal to about 50,000 trips or thereabouts. Apparently there was no noticeable long term ill effects either. Which is more than can be said for my workmate who had a long period in a mental institution, coupled with Electro-shock therapy, which eradicated large parts of his memory circuits. This however he put down to the fact that he had gone all Jimmy Page at some point and tried to summon Choronzon and not to the pitfalls of better living thru chemistry. (Choronzon didn’t appear btw. Or so he thought.) Now I always wondered what 50,000 trips would feel or, more properly, think like, in a swirling mass of music colours type way. Would the effects be partially nullified due to saturation, or would the effects be exponential? If so, remind me never to talk to engage Twink (if he is still alive) on the subject of God. Or even the shopping channel for that matter.

  331. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    As regards quality nutters, anyone remember Joseph and his Amazing Circus? (Tottenham Ct Rd underpass circa 84-86?) He was a middle-aged bloke in thick specs and hat with pervy raincoat who stood on a wooden box, in total silence, surrounded by placards with pointless slogans written on them. One day, me and a pal decided we’d had enough of this living oracles’ sullen indifference to his surroundings and resolved to purloin his hat. As I distracted him with my double-jointed feet routine (guaranteed to work on any unsuspecting or even suspecting member of the public) my mate reached up and grabbed his battered hat. Much to our alarm, we discovered that it was attached by elastic to his head (had someone tried this before?) and the thing snapped back with frightening alacrity. Expecting some sort of Benny Hill style chase through the London streets we legged it, only to see that our idiotic hero had quietly stepped back onto his plinth with an air of even more sullen silence. As if nothing had ever happened….A few months later we ventured up there to discover that Joseph had vacated his spot permanently. We were informed that a passing Japanese camera crew had abducted him and taken him back to the land of the Rising Sun. (No idea if this is true.) I suspect that he resides, still in sullen silence, in a shrine somewhere near Kyoto.

  332. John Says:

    So it wasnt Pat Dasso after all in the youtube video it was Kev McG******k, why wont you say his full second name???

  333. Sam Says:

    Ah….London nutters. One of the strange things about living in the US is the car culture. Unless you live in a major urban metropolis, you never really have to deal with the strange subculture of the mentally unwell.
    There was a fairly young, though disturbingly puffy woman who used to get the 73 back to Stoke Newington. She’d sit next to an unsuspecting victim and go; “It’s going to rain isn’t it? Am I right or not right?” The embarassed co occupant of the seat’d mumble an embarrassed “Yes” but she’d continue the Gestapo-like interrogation. “I think it is going to rain. Am I right or am I not right? I’m right aren’t I?” On and on and on. She was on the 73 the night of the Kings Cross Tube fire and I listened to her monologue for about 3 hours stuck in traffic.
    The shouters’d always get me though. You’d be standing there, it’d be fairly quiet and they’d start bellowing at no one in particular, making you jump out of your skin. I did go through a phase of trying to have a conversation with the ones who’d sit next to you on the bus. I wondered for a while if within the endless surreal drivel there could be some secret to the universe. Sadly, I gave up after about 6 months as they were all simply mad as backsides.
    Two famous nutters were these twins who lived in Hackney. Both identically dressed in granny coats, sensible shoes and plaits. One would start a sentance and the other would finish it. More like a monologue than a conversation. I think they were on a documentary in the eighties. They always struck me as the twins in The Shining grown up.

  334. luggy Says:

    Used to work for a housing association for people with learning difficulies who housed the twins, they were a handful! Not sure if they’re still around, got a mate who lives 2 doors down from where they were living but they might have moved on by now as they used to spend a fair bit of time outside London.

  335. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    @John

    Everyone has a right to privacy, dead or alive. If a name is already mentioned on a thread then fair enough. But you will never get more than a first name and the first letter of the second name from me. (Errr…Actually I gave a bit more than that…Oh well, sue me). His brother (Spider John) was still alive about five years ago and was doing okay. He was also, if I remember rightly, the more approachable of the two. Why not spend a weekend in West Hampstead and see if you can pick up his trail? Try the pubs for starters….(I’m sure people will know where he is now. He could hardly be described as inconspicuous now could he?)

    This is what he looked like nearly 30 years ago…

    http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/6034/spiderjohn.jpg

    Best of British luck to you!

  336. Penguin Says:

    Hello Kerr, hoping you are tip top, as you have appeared unto this site and reread some old posts that you may have missed, I wondered if you could shed some light on the subject of this lady who is attempting to find her father. The mail was sent via personal email to the site using the contact option above and originally I placed it on these comments back in January. It follows thus:

    Does anyone out there recognise the man described below at all? His daughter wants to meet him for possibly the first time in over a quarter of a century.

    “My names Sian and I was born in north London in 1983.

    I believe you may have known (or know of someone that knows) my Dad.

    We have never met and I don’t think he even knows I exist.

    I’m not going for any shock tactics. But I’m a 26 year old, with 2 kids, getting no joy from my Mother, she was a 19 year old single mum. And as far as she’s concerned, she did her bit, so why should he get to meet me now?

    This is a real long shot, but I’ll describe him anyway and give the (very vague) details I’ve been able to gather:

    His name is Steve (maybe Steve Cooper), AKA Crazy or Strange. From Tufnell Park and would hang around Freightliner farm sometimes.

    He has a tattoo of a spider web covering his head, two swallows on his neck. Both arms covered in tattoos and he may have had “cut here” on his neck, which may had been covered.

    He had a pretty impressive Mohican too apparently.

    Sorry, it’s not much to go on. But if you’ve got any clue where he might be, or just put the word out, it would be much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance”,

    Sian J

  337. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Haven’t got a scooby who that is. Sorry. Maybe Dave might remember him? Although, if he was from north London, it is possible that our paths never crossed. Weirdly, I have seen about four blokes with face tatts in the 45+ age range in the past year or so, whereas I don’t recall seeing any in the previous 20 years or so. Must be some sort of recurrent meme. Tufnell Park was heavily squatted back in the 80s, there must be a KYPP regular who lived there or visited one time. Even I ended up in Hackney (Penpole Rd) and Marylebone (Lisson Green estate) briefly and I never ever travel north of the river unless humanly possible.
    *Puts on best village idiot voice*
    “Cos I ‘eard some of you fuckers fought for that there Oliver Cromwell in the late war…”

  338. Sam Says:

    Beats living in Northern France.

  339. dave Says:

    Better ask Dave though, he went from white power and glue to hunt sabbing and road protests. Maybe he just stuck out his thumb and a gaily-coloured van pulled up… thats not a million miles away from what happened!
    i was living in a car on an industrial estate, when i get talking to a couple of spikeys looking for pallets.. moved onto Epsom site (silver birches) and one thing led to the other.

  340. baron von zubb Says:

    ‘south of the river’ yeah i’ve heared of that.
    near brixton right?
    ive met ex N F skins when travelling who’d completetly changed and never realy got how
    so is the link from bonhead to stonehenge urban crusty sites?
    ok
    but mentaly how does one go from paki bashing to being a tree hugger?
    l s d 25?

    (it, maybe its no odder then going from ‘anarchist boot boy’ to vipassana buddhist?)

    no clue realy…

    sam, went on plenty of public transport in S F and we were scared of the nutters that got on that got on.every time.loud brash big american nutters. most unpleasent.U S reminded me of a contempory version of victorian england.
    wanna go back and drive across sometime

  341. John Says:

    Thanks for uploading that picture Kerr Ray Z very intresting.

    So was that the Brother of Kev?

    See I just read the comments on the youtube video and somebody posted ‘that is pat dasso and hes still alive’ then another ‘i seen a similiar face in scotland’ or something.

    So these both belong in W.Hampstead?

    I wonder if he ever settled down because to be honest what woman wants to date a guy with them tattoos? :/

  342. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Heh, you’d be surprised what some women will go for. I knew a very attractive Swedish lady once who went into erotic palpitations at the sight of hideous facial scars. Spider John (Kev’s brother) is doing fine last I heard. They WERE jocks (as was a large percentage of the face tatt crowd – maybe some sort of primal Caledonian atavism resurfacing from the vomit-caked Jungian toilet-bowl, who knows?)

  343. Penguin Says:

    Bob, Cobb has turned up with the Yoakley Road toilet story on this thread here:

    http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=852

    Jump on and say hello (and thanks for holding the bags).

  344. John Says:

    I don’t think you would ever find the lass you wanted or into with them tattoos it just is the first thing people see and to be honest it just looks stupid. How can you explain to your kids (if you had kids with a lass) why you got them on the face?
    I bet both of them regret them now. How old will spider john and kev actually be now? I doubt either of them have had any job neither with them on the face just on benefits in council houses for the rest of there lifes I bet.
    Did both of them go to prison does anybody know?
    I was reading the cobweb means prison???

  345. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Well, I didn’t know any of the face tatt crowd who weren’t habitual criminals. They were in trouble with the law long before they met any tattooists. But then not many of the skins back then avoided stir either, tattoos or not. But some worked. I saw one working for Conway the other week doing road surfacing. Okay, so limited job progression but the cocky fucker had actually had his recently re-inked. It was his arm tatts which were faded. lol.

    Can confirm that Kev is dead btw. Smack o.d. about fifteen years ago.

  346. John Says:

    So you can confirm Kerr Ray Z the guy on the video (Kev) is dead?

    It’s just his brother that is still kicking about and doing fine?

    I wonder if Kev actually did anything with his life i.e kids, house, working, etc.

    Yeah I read ‘skinheads’ racist or not was a saint lol always in trouble with the law.

    Was it actual tattooists that did these tattoos because over 75% look half done and crooked.

    If you was to go into London is there actually a lot of face tattoo 40+ guys knocking about?

  347. Sam Says:

    Pat Dasso is apparently alive and well, drinks in The Steels in Hampstead and was described as ‘a typical beer boy’ by Si, whose friend sees him there quite a lot.

  348. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    @John

    As I said above, there are defo a few still around. Yep, Spider John is still alive, as of one year ago.

    Mark Saint did all the face tatts at his parlour in Notting Hill.

    Sam’s given you a good lead. Go and buy Pat a drink. You know you want to…..

  349. John Says:

    But does Pat Dasso actually have facial tattoos or not?

    Does anybody have any photos of him?

    He isn’t the guy in the video remember…

  350. John Says:

    Anybody remember this geezer?

    http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1558/37955762.png

  351. John Says:

    Been surfing the net for donkeys now and the guy in the 1980s spider tattoo on face Kerr who you said is Kev I found another actual picture of him I’m not sure of the location but he has had another piece done above the cross in the middle of his forehead I can’t make out what it says though.

    Here is a link I’m 99.9% it is him because of the shape of the head similiar tattoos and eyes.

    http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5965/61572293.png

  352. Penguin Says:

    “Been surfing the net for donkeys now” Whatever rocks your boat John! Good luck with that. Hope you find one. ;-)

  353. John Says:

    Yeah I have, I just am interested in how there lifes have turned out.

    Kerr – is that picture a photo of Kev?

  354. alistairliv Says:

    There are some very sad donkeys here http://drupal.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/

  355. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    @John

    Yes, that is Kev.

    @Penguin

    At a former place of work, we had a chirpy cockney van driver who had adopted a ‘junky monkey’ (it had belonged to a heroin addict who needed a companion apparently) in a sanctuary somewhere and he had a photo of it in his cab.

    Being naturally sensitive to issues involving the abuse of animals, I jovially quipped:

    “Can’t you get one of it with a tourniquet ’round it’s arm about to jack up!”

    *Silence and tumble weeds blowing followed by an uneasy smile*

  356. John Says:

    Thanks Kerr I see he had more done above the cross on his forehead than the video.

    Kerr just asking do have any idea where that photo is taken?

    I’ve been reading previous posts and these guys actually can get work???

  357. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Think it’s Trafalgar Sq. That was one regular hangout. The West end skins strolled between there, the ‘Dilly, Leicester Sq and Carnaby St and finely honed their aggressive begging routines on the way. It was a daily soap opera representing all that was best about the Thatcher years in London.

  358. John Says:

    Thanks alot Kerr Ray Z seeing as you know a fair bit about all the skins with facial tattoos was any of them actually nice people to speak to?

    Thatcher came into power ’79 so judging by the photo it again is an early 80s photo?

  359. alistairliv Says:

    But what about the donkeys John?

  360. The Martin C who doesn't clean out squat toilets Says:

    Al! Spurs are playing away tonight…don’t jinx this. Look, the season’s nearly over, then we can focus on the donkeys.

    Right, so….er…does anyone remember this guy?

    http://www.derekridgers.com/index/module/media/pId/102/id/220/category/gallery|documentary|skinheads/start/117/Skinheads;-subculture;-Oi!;-th.html

  361. John Says:

    alistairliv it was just a phrase most people knew what I meant.

    Bloody hell.. these facial tattoo thing must have been a fad like when everybody has a certain type of dog everybody gets one.

    Jeez new faces appearing all the time.

  362. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    @John

    Nice people? Never met any! So wouldn’t know about such rarities.

    Most of the face tatt crowd had mental problems. They tended not to be very bright either. The drugs and alcohol tended to make them more so. As fucked up as I was back then, I still seemed dimly aware of some promised middle age and self-satisfied shangri-la where face tatts would be about as much use as a mahogany frying pan or a framed David “Diddy” Hamilton autograph.

    These were young men, boys even, who, despite a lifetime of kickings and quasi-parental horrors that boggled the imagination, had nevertheless decided that the best way of standing on their own two feet was to start by sawing off one of their own legs. This did not strike me then, nor does it now, as a fully coherent strategy for dealing with life’s disappointments.

    But then again, having witnessed our society decline into a conformist nightmare populated solely by permanent pre-pubescents devoted to the chimera of endless capitalist progress and mindless lifestyle gurudom, I still feel it hard to completely condemn their nihilistic endeavours. Sitting near the summit of a crumbling corporate pyramid, obsessed with sub-celebrity subtexts and crawling with semi-simian vacuous meringue people, I sometimes think that the oft-quoted bonehead catechism of WE ARE THE FIRST OF TOMORROW, NOT THE LAST OF YESTERDAY! may well turn out to convey the horrifying truth at the centre of their tattooed heart of darkness; indeed the sanest trope ever regurgitated by an evostik-encrusted maw.

    We could well be fucked.

    Pass me the butane!

  363. alistairliv Says:

    There you go John – stick with the donkeys. A donkey will never let you down.

  364. John Says:

    Kerr was drugs a massive big thing back then like only the hard people done it or someone?

    I’ve already posted further up I’ve not grown up in the 80s so really never knew what it was like.

    On another note people call the facial tattoo crowds ”boneheads” which I’ve read means a racist ”skinhead” but that Kev had ‘TROJAN SKINS’ tattooed on his chest and had face tats so obviously not all them are that bad?

    How did you come out of it all good but them lot seem to have died because didn’t you mean when you said ‘as much as I was fucked up back then’ you did drugs?

    Also alistairliv I’ll be blunt – shut the fuck up you are getting on my nerves now with your stupid snidy comments.

  365. John no last name Says:

    Wow sensing some anger here John, what do you have against donkeys?

  366. slyme68 Says:

    a couple of memories from my west end days ’81 ish, i knew by sight some leicester square skins then, can’t remember any names…

    me and a hippy called roger sitting in barclays all night cafe, a skin comes up and says “you know about drugs, don’t you – what’s this?” shows me a white pill. i didn’t know and showed it to roger “it’s a treatment they give to alcoholics” he says “my mate took one and fell on his head for three days”. “excellent” says the skin and popped it in his mouth. roger says after he didnt know what it was at all.

    skin on tuinal (bulldog tat) gets in a scrap with a punk under charing cross arches and gets bottled in the neck, blood everywhere. me and a couple of punk girls (from canada?) get an ambulance and help him in. a couple of days later i see him in trafalgar square and ask after his injury. he can’t remember a thing about it, starts on me cos maybe i did it before accepting that i’d helped him.

    do you really think that people like that know the difference between trojan and oi? they don’t even know their own names. a person could come round with a new tat and not even know when it was done let alone what it means.

    read the kypp pages on tuinal. barbs are the same. even druggies need to have some kind of discernment!

    also, alistair’s got more answers than you can think of questions, so don’t dis him and lets keep the discussion even tempered even if the territory’s close to the bone(head).

  367. alistairliv Says:

    Pinki had a good story about a donkey and tattoos. It was when she was living at Campbell Buildings and she used to do a lot of night work. So early one morning she was just getting back home when she saw this old guy with a donkey coming out of one of the flats.

    First time she saw the donkey she thought she was seeing things (due to bad drugs) but then she saw the man and the donkey again. Turns out he was a rag and bone man, the last one in south London. He told Pinki he had been evicted from his scrap yard and had to sell his horse. Now all he had was the donkey and the only place they could live was in really bad squats. (Due to the donkey. Good squats wouldn’t have it.)

    The other thing she said was that he was covered all over in tattoos, even his willie. (I think she must have seen him having a bath). The tattoos were all of horses apart from one – that was of a donkey. She said it was on his face – the last bit he got tattooed.

    The rag and bone man didn’t last long at Campbell Buildings – someone grassed him up to the RSPCA and they came and took his donkey away. The last Pinki saw of him he was pulling his cart down the street towards Waterloo at sunset.

  368. Sam Says:

    Waterloo sunset’s fine, though.

  369. John Says:

    What makes me amazed is facial tattoos puts a kind of saying ‘HI LOOK AT ME’ type of attitude yet several photos of people nobody can name them – why not? Not hard to miss them is it :/

  370. majes Says:

    I used to make the occasional trip to London and would see tattooed face skinheads hanging round Carnaby St and thereabouts. They certainly weren’t easily missed. Never got to know any of their names though. Quite the reverse really. Call it irrational prejudice or just common sense but I always took the tattoos as a reliable indicator that they were best avoided, particularly in light of the fact that many of the more docile looking skinheads of the time were violent thugs in my experience. I can see that there is a fascination with such extreme ways of setting yourself apart from the people around you but I figured it was a safe bet that this lot were complete nutcases and to get mixed up with them would only bring trouble and grief. Nothing I’ve read here has made me think otherwise. I don’t think my life has been any less enriched by failing to interact with them. By contrast I loved some of the skinhead records at the time. A strange dichotomy.

  371. alistairliv Says:

    Bob Short (author of Trash Can) has just drawn my attention to the film Cerks 2 and the notoriuous ‘Donkey’ scene.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wtZX1i6OYc

    It is very strong stuff (action kicks off about 2 mins in) and makes me wonder if Pinki’s description of the tattooed man (and his donkey) as a ‘rag and bone’ man was a euphemism.

    I do hope for her children’s sake that she her was not involved in anything so sordid.

    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are not looking at a donkey’s arrrs.

  372. John Says:

    I don’t like to stereotype people I guess because there is a skinhead up here who is about 40 odd and he has some sort of tribal and the cross on his face and he has survived it all maybe he just grew up from his bad youth.

    alistairliv you are an absolute bell end.

  373. dave Says:

    aaaarse!!! trojan skin came from the record label which was ska beat
    skins used the name bonehead to distance themselves from the madness/specials skins and cause the hair was no1 or less

  374. dave Says:

    HELP! does anyone know how to cancel an ebay bid…i have bidded on a mickey mouse outfit and have just found out im 5 min away from buying THFC.

  375. Penguin Says:

    Dave, I admire your spunk (I have a small sample here next to me in a petri dish). I will be happy to buy THFC off your hands if you won the item. At least the purchase will give me somewhere to park my car. And your definition of bonehead is to my understanding spot on. Skinheads had some hair at least, a crewcut, boneheads were shaved to the skull. Skinheads since they emerged in the mid 60′s generally listened to black forms of music including the 2 Tone skinheads that came later on about 1978. Paradoxically this did not mean all of these skinheads had any great love for their west indian or black U.S. cousins, some still flirted with the young NF. Thankfully though a percentage of skinheads did mix well with their communities. Boneheads seemed to be more afilliated with punk, oi and some white power bands while completely ignoring the history of the reggae and northern soul scenes that had come hand in hand with the earlier skinheads over a decade before.

    I have read through some of these comments today as I was busy watching my team slap some Manc team at their plot last night and I noticed some slight aggression towards KYPP fanzine contributer, KYPP online contributor, All The Madmen Records boss (for a while) mainstay of Black Sheep Housing Co Op, Wapping Autonomy Centre, Centro Iberico and general great man, Alistair Livingston.

    John, as Slyme stated above, telling a man who has been there, seen it, worn the T shirt, washed it and worn it again to fuck off, and calling him a bell end is not nice.

    Please refrain.

    By all means enjoy your chats with Kerr about these facial tattooed hooligans that Al, Tony D, Bob Short, Cory, Quick Phil and many, many others had rotten experiences with way back in the early 1980′s.
    I myself had hassle from these kind of boneheads, not specifically the ones that have been mentioned by name on the comments related to this thead, but boneheads never the less. My worst was twelve onto one (I was the one) in a park in 1983.

    Alistair is a fair man so again John, please refrain.

  376. John Says:

    Penguin how can you call someone who makes stupid comments about a phrase I’ve used as a ”fair man” I told him to stop yet he still continues.

    Also, Penguin you say people have had rotten experiences with the facial tattooed lot but nigh on all the posts on here state that there just avoided them – so how did there have any trouble with them?

    Funny enough isn’t it when you talk about something you normally see loads of them I was in town yesterday I seen 2 or 3 guys with the dot under the cheek (borstal spot) I asked my father what it meant. I also seen some guy with the cross in the middle of his forehead and a swallow on the left cheek I would say he was early to mid 30s.

    Was it mainly just the London area where these ”boneheads” facial tattoo crowd was or all over UK?

  377. Penguin Says:

    John, when you used the word ‘donkeys’ Al put up a rescue site link which does not have any bearing on this thread here. When he placed a comment about a donkey housed in Campbell Buildings, told to Al by his late wife and mother to his children Pinki who lived in one of the punk squats at Campbell Buildings it is relevant.
    When Al adds a comment about a scene in a film sent to him by Bob Short, this also is relevant.

    The reason why both these are relevant to the post?

    If you care to look passed the 377 comments right up at the top to the original post you will see that the interest generated is because the post is about Campbell Buildings in Waterloo, written by Bob Short for his book and originally uploaded onto this website by Alistair.

    What is not relevant to the Campbell Buildings post, but is welcome never the less, is your particuliar continued interest in tattooed boneheads that has been discussed in recent months.

    Al is fair man and is allowed to place comments on HIS post about Campbell Buildings, or links sent to him by the writer of the book that the post is based on.

    To answer your further questions.

    Are you the boy in the bubble?

    Is your life so safe and sweet that you have never had any experiance of pain?

    Do you not grasp the concept that trouble sometimes kicks off in communities?

    When I wrote on a much earlier comment that “folk would try to cross the street to avoid these boneheads” can you not understand that sometimes, just sometimes, some folk may not avoid them quite well enough?

    This breed of people (in my experiance and many others no doubt) were nihilistic psychopaths buzzed out on speed, glue and achohol. The police did not phase them in the slightest, neither did the result of some of their actions bother them.

    Do you not know that beatings by teenage gangs happen in life? In 2010, same as 1980?

    What do you do in your hometown when you see known trouble makers standing about? What is your immediate thought and action?

    Perhaps you come from an area that has minimal trouble from gangs?

    By reading some of your recent comments, it seems that you have seen a fair few face tattoed people recently.

    Perhaps you come from an area where all these face tattoed people live when they retire from being nutters in the major cities!

    I dont know where these boneheads lived in the UK. I only experianced the London based ones, but as someone already noted a fair few originally came down from Scotland so there must have been a base there somewhere.

    I was mugged by two boneheads who placed a knife to my neck in a Leicester Square alleyway in 1984. They took my army style satchal with some cheese sandwiches, a Blood And Roses tape (Hi Bob Short!) and a couple of fanzines. Hardly a great booty for the muggers but not my nicest experiance. One of these boneheads had GLASGOW tattoed on his cheek amongst other tattoos I failed to noticed.

  378. John Says:

    Sorry Penguin my bad error, I thought he was taking the piss out of me when I said I’ve searched for donkeys on the net meaning a long time.

    I come from a rough area and there are I’d say about 4 of the top of my head that you see quite often.

    But I guess London is where most skinheads are from the 80s and until now seeing as its the capital.

    All I’m saying is you can’t really say there druggies, alcoholics without even meeting them and plenty still seemed to settle down have kids and work.

    Obviously you ain’t the guy or girl with tattoos on the face – but do you have any idea why of all places there got there FACE tattooed?

    It’s there for life basically unless you get laser treatment which costs thousands.

    I’m sorry if I may have came across as a total tosspot but I am just very intrested in how different people live there life.

  379. John Says:

    Also guys here is a picture of someone with ‘EAT SHIT’ tattooed on his forehead.

    http://www.derekridgers.com/index/module/media/pId/102/id/970/category/gallery%7Cdocumentary%7Cstreet7788/start/81/subculture;-youth-sub-cults;-y.html

    Who’s that? Probably the worst tattoo I’ve seen in my life.

  380. Penguin Says:

    That’s cool John, glad it is sorted.

    Hopefully Kerr will show up to let you know details of the guy above.

  381. The Martin C who doesn't clean out squat toilets Says:

    We’re off boneheads and into street nutter territory. That’s ‘Eat Shit Dave’ (or so everyone used to call him), and he hung around New Cross while I was living in SE London between ’94 and ’97. Bit more grizzled than in that pic, but used to wear a big camo jacket and a woolly hat, and spent most of his time begging and drinking. Thought he was quite well known, as Dom Joly completely parodied him in a couple of ‘Trigger Happy TV’ sketches (right down to the clothes and tattoo)

  382. John Says:

    It just looks absolutely rediculous with that tattoo.

    Is he still knocking about 13 years on or has he passed away?

  383. John Says:

    To you Kerr can you also confirm is this Kev again :

    http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/85034747.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5481E6C6882F06E38BAABDB32DFE2F7094C8C29F4A9FF8AE1F1

    http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/85034739.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548690B3A8A07D5F2CBABDB32DFE2F7094C6D56041BDCF042E3

    http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/85034749.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548E1262AD0D435C350ABDB32DFE2F7094C1C9DDB7714BBE37F

    Just a rough guess how old would you say he is there Kerr?

  384. Sam Says:

    “All I’m saying is you can’t really say there druggies, alcoholics without even meeting them and plenty still seemed to settle down have kids and work.”

    Yes we shouldn’t stereotype people but fuck it. They were all druggies. So were we.

    “Obviously you ain’t the guy or girl with tattoos on the face – but do you have any idea why of all places there got there FACE tattooed?”

    You keep asking the same question mate. As you see these people everyday, go and ask one.

  385. Martin C who etc etc Says:

    Sorry, I don’t have a clue – I left that part of town in ’97 and only went back every now and then. I remember seeing that ‘Trigger Happy TV’ sketch ages later and thinking, “Oh, Dom Joly must have seen him too” (he copied him to a tee, maybe there’s some clips of the show on Youtube). To be brutally honest, he was just a skinny, pisshead tramp who used to wander around with a dog, you wouldn’t have classed him as any subculture. There were much weirder ‘characters’ in that area at the time, and the only reason he stood out was because he had EAT SHiT on his head.

  386. John Says:

    I don’t really want to randomly go up to them and ask them that… it would be way too dodgy because you dunno how they will respond.

  387. Sam Says:

    As far as I know, nobody here has a face tattoo. It’s been explained why people got them back in the day.

    Answer #1 – They were stupid.

    Answer #2 – They were on drugs or cider (possibly Merrydown).

    Answer #3 – They were already dead and became begging zombies.

    Answer #4 – They were years ahead of their time and pre-empted the 90s trend for tribal facial design.

    Answer #5 – They enjoyed the bravado of having a body part with very little cushion between skin and bone attacked repeatedly with a needle (probably the most likely).

    Answer #6 – They wanted to look like their mates (also likely). To find the answer to your question you’ll have to trace the first bonehead to get one done. This may lead you on a quest to the Louvre, Westminster Abbey and you may discover the presence of Pat Dasso in The Last Supper and The Virgin of the Rocks.

    Answer #7 – Cheaper than plastic surgery.

    Answer #8 – A love of arachnids.

    Answer #9 – A need to be more green/blue in colour. Dislike of traditional Caucasian flesh tones.

    Answer #10 – Fuck only knows. They probably don’t know themselves. One of life’s great mysteries.

  388. John no last name Says:

    “I’m sorry if I may have came across as a total tosspot” this kind of apology only comes across as sincere if you stop doing the thing you are apologizing for, John.
    Can you please stop posting about your obsession with idiots with face tattoos. Oh wait let me preemptively post your reply “why are you saying they are idiots?, why are you judging them?”

    Enough, stop! if you want to post about something else please feel free to, but on behalf of everyone I was friends with that posts on this site I can safely say. We get the point, you are curious about people with facial tattoos, we however are not, so enough is enough. Please stop!

    If you want to know about them ask one, if you don’t have the guts to talk to one stop talking about it here, because obviously nobody on here has facial tattoos and nobody on here is getting any any time soon. We don’t care!

    Sorry everyone else to speak for you all, but enough is enough.

  389. John Says:

    Sam, why would I go and find Pat Dasso he doesn’t have any facial tattoos it isn’t him in the video it is Kev something Kerr even said so earlier up.

    John no last name I said having ‘EAT SHIT’ that isn’t even straight on your forehead is idiotic of course it is I think I speak for ”everyone” on that.

    How can I go and ask one when there is hardly any of them knocking about? The ones here are alocholics and I just feel if I did go and to one of them ”such and such” I would expect a kicking.

    It is also not an obesession I don’t wank over them, just I have a strong genuine curious reason to why in the skinhead subculture facial tattoos became so common, I used to look alot into punk subculture to like why did they used to wear swastika shirts for the shock value.

    You are saying go and ask one… people say Bonner is still knocking about but he isn’t a ”nice” person so why would I try and start a conversation with him and just expect abuse?

    Yes nobody on here has facial tattoos but you have all been around that time and obviously actually spoke to some of them, so I’m just asking relevant questions like what kind of people got them, why, etc.

    Facial tattooed people are always stereotyped as bad people am I correct?

    All I’m saying is John no last name I am just CURIOUS not OBSESSED.

  390. Sam Says:

    Fair enough John but please refer to my list above if you’re still in doubt. I think it should cover all of your relevant questions.

  391. Chris Says:

    Does anyone know who this guy is?

    http://crappytattoos.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/tattoo-racist.jpg

    Was he born in the same century – or share the same oxygenic phototrophy – as Bonner, Pat Dasso, Spider Kev or ‘Swastika-face Freddy’?

    Does anyone know where I can find him? Is he a nice guy? I don’t want to judge him just by his tattoo … also I read that skinheads have their origins in ska music, so perhaps he just made a mistake when he visited the tattoo parlour and was in fact wanting ‘non-discriminatory liberal’ inked on his forehead instead?

    Why is life so confusing?

    And why are the results so unsatisfactory when I enter ‘skinhead’ and ‘donkey’ into Google Image Search?

    (((etc)))

  392. John Says:

    There is a huge difference getting cross, tribals, webs, spiders, ENGLAND, on your face tattooed than ‘racist’

  393. Chris Says:

    indeed, as this enterprising fellow would confirm -

    http://www.snazaroo.com/assets/images/beginners-guide/football/england03.jpg

    having opted to cover his incongrous facial smorgasbord of ‘cross,tribals,webs,spiders’ with the eminently more unobtrusive ‘ENGLAND’ tattoo.

    And perhaps Mr Bonner has taken his lead, adopting the “half Marcel Marceau” to mask his own ink/face interface follies:

    http://www.glyn-wise.co.uk/galleries/images/gallery5/Face%20paint.jpg

  394. alistairliv Says:

    …and a scary donkey
    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3520/3201699053_5088fa3923_m.jpg

  395. John Says:

    You two are making no sense.

    How is an England face paint a swastika tattoo?

  396. Chris Says:

    If we’re talking ‘sense’ I think i’d get more from a donkey.

  397. John no last name Says:

    Thanks Chris and Al that was funny!

  398. anonarky Says:

    Does everywhere have the legend of the skinhead with “sniks” tattooed on face? There was one in barrow-in-furness but I never had the pleasure of meeting him.
    (if it doesn’t make sense, image some with a needle, bottle of indian ink and a mirror).

  399. baron von zubb Says:

    top posts chris n samual.

    :)

    john my better half thinks youve got facial tattoos but are having a exitstencial problem with them..

  400. Val D Says:

    hi all – just catching up on the current twists and turns of this topic -
    re facial tattoos – what about butterfly Angie, from Brougham Rd? I expect you can guess what she had tattooed on her face… and donkeys in flats – see film Into the West 1992 – also Perry (brother of Wog) Ogden’s Pony Kids photos/book.

  401. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Okay, last post before I do my customary disappearing act for a couple of months.

    Firsly, when in the name of greek buggery did I become an authority on the face tattooed of early ’80s London??!! Okay, so I can put a few names to the scores of inked lunatics that hung around the west end at that time, but that hardly makes me the world’s greatest oracle on the subject. There must have been easily over a hundred of the cunts and even Ridgers never photoed them all. In fact, I am yet to see a full cobweb over the face pic from anyone and there were a few of them hanging about. Besides, the later Scottish tramp punk fraternity probably even outdid their skinheaded southern cousins for sheer stupidity. (Noddy and his *dog breath* forehead tattoo springs to mind)

    As for the terms ‘skinhead’ and ‘bonehead’, the only terms I used back then was rudeboy (for the two tone crowd) and skinhead (for both the originals and the revival sham army lot and their spinoffs.) I think it all gets very confusing when people relate skinhead to music. Skinhead has no music, it’s an attitude and a dress code, pure and simple. The most popular band amongst skinheads in the early revival days besides Sham, Skrewdriver etc was Siouxsie & the Banshees. UK Decay also had a large skin following later on. Yet no one used the term ‘goth skins’. Another band who attracted a skin following later was Einsturzende Neubauten because their gigs were insanely aggressive. Ditto for Killing Joke. (I loved both of those bands too). This is why I fucking loathed Garry Bushell because he was an inverted snob who told the regimented morons what they could and could not do. A playground know-it-all who doubled as closet headmaster. I actually wore a Crass badge on my harrington for a while and never got any shit from other skins for doing so. It was a lot less uniform musically/politically until Bushell started with his shtick. Oi! was utter shit anyway. ‘All Skrewed Up’ was the first street-punk (ie oi!) album and better than any of the retarded nonsense that Bushell ever championed. Skinhead was dead by ’81 anyway. The right-wing crowd killed everything. Even their poster boys Skrewdriver. The first skin to have worn a union jack tshirt should have been publicly crucified imho. Who the fuck would wanna dress as a jap tourist?

    @Alistairliv

    There were still a fair few totters in south London until the early 90s. I worked on a cart briefly in the 80s. It was a lot of fun and there was very good money to be had with all the empty properties back then. We had an old nag and a dog for company, no donkeys I’m afraid. Maybe the bloke Pinki mentioned, if he wasn’t some terrible cypher for stellar perversions unlimited, was the last totter with a donkey.

    @MartinC

    Do you remember a quality New Cross rastafarian nutter who drove a van with hand crocheted red-green-gold mudflaps and the symbols of his His Imperial Majesty emblazoned on the door? On the side of his van in big fuck off letters was the cryptic message:

    BIG T’ING GOWAAN ‘APPEN!

    Last seen driving the SE London streets shortly before 9/11. I shit you not.

    @John

    I really do think there are more fascinating subjects to enthuse over than drugged up young runaways with inked faces. Also remember that most of us here lived through that period and don’t always have very pleasant memories of the shaven headed brethren who infested every back alley, bus shelter, council estate and multi-storey carpark. It was a very violent subculture. And I do mean VIOLENT.The frightening thing was that it was even more violent on the inside. Loads of skins got robbed, battered or even murdered by other skins. I knew one skin who actually used to glass his mates for a laugh. Mind you, when you are on the floor holding your mate’s windpipe because he has just had his throat cut then the laughing tends to subside somewhat. Until the next time that is…..

    As for the race angle, it wasn’t so easy to define back then either. I could do an obnoxious Bernard Manning routine with my black mates in those days and get nothing but laughs. (Still can actually!) There were loads of black and asian skins up until about 1980. Then the lure of other fashions and the growing right-wing element drove many away. But there were probably more nonwhite skins than nonwhite anarchist squatters even during the Oi! era. I remember the squatting scene being very racially divided even in the late 80s. Parties, demos and even some music events were uniformly white or heavily segregated. Like I said another time, people just mirror the society they grow up in. Britain was much more monocultural (monochrome would be a better description) at that time. You can’t make any meaningful comparisons with the present. It’s completely different nowadays.

    As for drugs, yes, we all did them…in the end, if not sooner. I actually did some drugs so exotic that they are alas no longer talked about except in hushed whispers by Rampton day release patients locked in permanent muscle spasms. freon, potter’s catarrh powder, spiralina and amanita muscaria were all attempted and negotiated with in frenzied soul-bargainings so bizarre that even Lord Beelzebub himself declared himself temporarily off-message. When I wasn’t scraping out the contents of fish tanks, drying them and smoking them or sucking up the gaseous contents of fridges, I was living in a squat on Tulse Hill estate with three drug dealers that actually had no door. I would like to boast that this was one of the greatest and inspired psyops ever perpetrated by the drug dealing community – After all, what lunatic would suspect a ground floor flat with no front door as harbouring drug dealers – but sadly it was just the result of some scouse rentboys kleptomania (Yes, dear readers, the liverpudlian mug actually stole the door to his own fucking flat!) and our total inability to deal with the consequences thereof. I think it would be fair to say that we were perpetually fucked up at that point. A one time resident, a supposedly de-patched ex Vancouver Hell’s Angel, had earlier patented possibly the largest and most lethal pressure bong ever devised. I naively imagined that great plumes of smoke only exited people’s ears in Disney cartoons until he demonstrated its utter mechanical fiendishness on a red-faced Glaswegian class war activist from Bognor Regis. Crazy fucker blew smoke trails out of all his orifices before finally passing out on the lino unconscious. Happy days.

    @Sam…You’re a quality geezer. Keep the stories coming. And I promise to make enquiries about the macrotous (triple word score!) Ladbroke Grove skin known as John.
    @Dave….Bruv, your pithy observations crack me up. Keep on keepin’ on….
    @Penguin….What can I say but quality tunes and quality banter. Best regards to you and your family.

    Anyways, adieu, adieu to yer and yer and yer……

  402. Penguin Says:

    Always a pleasure to read your comments Kerr. This one’s no exception. Enjoy your brief self inforced exile from KYPP.
    A firm (computer generated) handshake to you sir.

  403. dave Says:

    thx kerr made excellent reading (and i didnt have to look up any words).

  404. John Says:

    Anaorky, is this Angie with the butterfly tattoo on face?

    http://www.derekridgers.com/index/module/media/pId/102/id/666/category/gallery%7Cdocumentary%7Cstreet7788/start/54/subculture;-youth-sub-cults;-y.html

    I think I might go and stay in London for a bit to really see how many of these guys and lasses are still knocking about.

  405. Penguin Says:

    Hi John, I think you missed the mark a little bit here, firstly it was Val D that mentioned Angie not Anaorky, secondly the picture from the Derek Ridgers archive seems to show the girl (who is not Angie btw) with the heavy eye make up which to me is the only thing on her face that resembles anything like a butterfly. This make up is drawn on with eye liner and was similar to the way Siouxsie (of the Banshees) used to look. Siouxsie’s make up was a little bit understated compared to the woman in the photo you supplied though.
    Lastly if you are worried about asking the locals around your area about the tattoos on their faces, then take extra care in London asking anyone you see hanging around with those same tattoos. At least in your own area you have some common ground / local issues to discuss if things turn slightly uncomfortable. In London they may well think you are just taking the piss out of them and their mood may turn ugly.
    Go to the Bricklayers Arms pub along Tottenham High Street, on the left from White Hart Lane slightly along from the Tottenham Hotspur stadium to witness and, if you want, speak to one of your muckers.
    I dont know who he is, and I have no interest in approaching him to find out his name or story, but he is completely covered over in face tattoos (similar to the pictures of Bonner I have seen on this thread) and looks late 1970′s early 80′s.
    He sometimes collects plastic pint ‘glasses’ after THFC home matches for freebie drinks from the management, although I see him in there on non match days in the middle of the afternoon.

  406. Chris Says:

    You may also want to approach Thomas Cook with your idea for a ‘facial tattoo’ package holiday, or better still start up your own – like the Jack The Ripper or Hugenout architecture tours that already exist in the East End :-)

  407. Chris Says:

    PS. There’s a clue as to the identity of the stunner in that particular photo amongst the words “Lisa, Soho, 1981″. By eliminating the location and year you may be able to ascertain it.

  408. dave Says:

    hi does anyone know my girlfriend??

    http://www.neatorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/brenda.jpg

  409. ex skin Says:

    legless black fella above was indeed dubbed space invader. don’t think he was a tuinol dealer, just some loon from over paddington way?? one of the regulars threw his skate board under a passing bus one evening. he compleately done his nut and had to be cuffed by old bill. a tall skin asked if they were taking him back to london zoo and if so could they give him a lift as he lived nearby. copper said yes and nicked him for racial harressmant. hahaha!!! they loaded em both into a black maria where the space invader fella told him he’d lost both his legs working on the railways. no idea if this is true or total bollox. maddest place i always thought in early days was that cinema round the corner that showed hammer films all night with complimentry cup of bovril included in entrance price. speed fiend city. we used to set alite to sleeping tramps shoes for larfs. one night one went up like a fucking roman candle. nearly shit myself with terror. stench of burnt rubber was awful but old fucker never even woke up. no harm done i spose. though i proberly deserved a slap for it. also anyone here do the annual new years trafalgar thing? saw big bonner do someone with a bottle one year. cunt copper also broke my hand. loads of mental offs with jocks / spades / paddys / toffs and a night on the floor at that post office round the corner. we saw a bloke in there with a dog that could wank itself off. they threw him out not surprisingly.it was a madhouse til they boarded up the fountain.

    dave, that cunts dislexic like me. think he means bender.

  410. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Dave-> Yeah, I think I remember her. Denise, innit?

  411. luggy Says:

    Aah, the perils of having facial tats:

    http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quirkies/Burglar_tattoo_easy_to_find

  412. dave Says:

    ex skin i cant think of a reply to your thread so i wont!
    jpp i think you missed the point (or i did)?

  413. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Er, yeah, I got the point Dave. I was making a joke. Unsuccessfully, it appears!

  414. dave Says:

    jpp- nah i think i missed it, been on shifts so brain is slower than norm(which means reverse) do you mind me asking where the name comes from? seems
    a good ska pen name

  415. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @Dave-> the name comes from the fact that my punk nom de guerre used to be “Pig Ignorant” which was all good until Crass got big and people started asking me if I was Steve Ignorant’s brother!

    Wank Stain and I decided to change it while we were sitting in his bedroom with a bottle of vodka one fine evening…

    JPP came from the fact that I like reggae, like Jah Wobble and on top of that I liked pushing people’s tolerance a little at the time as well: as Stewie said on here a while back, it’s offensive on at least 3 levels. Which is kinda what I was aiming for :-)

  416. dave Says:

    jpp thx for that! i try to be offensive in different ways but most of the time my mouth is quicker than my brain and a lot of it is letting off steam after shittey week at hospital i would like to hear others storys of people theyve pissed off

  417. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Weirdly, Alex (Beano), who used to live at Campbell Buildings – who I seem to remember was an ex-Army type like Sniper, had a little puppy dog called Mishka. Little ball of brown fur that drank a lot of milk! He named it after the 1980 Moscow Olympic mascot – Mishka the bear. Anyone have any idea what happened to Beano? He was a man with a great deal of style – never went out during the daytime and only ever went out binraking of a night when togged out in his thrift shop tuxedo. Top man!

  418. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @ex-skin->that is so racist mate… you didn’t mention the Welsh anywhere!

  419. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    Dunno if I’m feeling particularly old today but can I just ask yous to remember those of us who didn’t make it? It’s what keeps them alive. Y’all know who they are, obviously. Maybe just take a minute if you get a chance, today? I got round to thinking last night that I hope to leave as small a footprint on the world as possible, just to give my grandkids a fighting chance when it’s their turn.

    It’d be pretty good if one or two people remembered me as a mouthy twat with a reasonable turn of phrase :-) (or, less likely, a reasonable twat with a phrasily-turned mouth) :-)

    Cheers all.

  420. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    @KerrRayZ-> “Rockers” by the UK Subs was originally entitled “Totters”. Therefore it went “Born a Totter, Die a Totter” (repeat ad nauseam etc).

    There’s still a lot of totterspeak doing the rounds Saaf Lunnun way now (has been since my mum was young too)

    I’m sure the word “chav” comes from totterspeak: a mate of mine from the carts used to call kids something like “deck eye chavvy” (not “dick-eye”!)

    “Bustamente” was not only the name of a fairly good racehorse, it was also South London totterspeak for anything of any genus that was fairly good…

    …and to this day my mum, who’s 81 now, still calls anyone who comes across as a bit dodgy a “right old mushty kylow”.

    Any other tottertalk out there?

    (JPP realises that he’s missed his meds tonight which would explain insomnia/overposting. Bring on the antipsychotics! I go crazy 4ya!!!!)

  421. Simon Says:

    @ John,

    not too sure if you will see this but answers to your questions may be found on the forum found here

    http://londonskinheads1970sand1980s.webs.com/

  422. John Says:

    The guy in the video in the 1980s on youtube with the cross,web,spider is Kev Mcgoldrick isn’t it just amazing how asking around can help you, also yes he did die that video is in 82/83 in carnaby street.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvGEeOR4toc

  423. Penguin Says:

    Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:
    April 14th, 2010 at 7:52 pm edit

    The guy, in the youtube vid which sparked the bizarrely obsessive ‘Where is Pat Dasso?’ meme is Kev McG******k, who is now apparently dead. He had a shorter stouter brother called John who also had spider tatts and later became a punk. They were part of the Carnaby/Dilly/Square postcard skins who were basically despised by the wider bonehead community.

    John Says:
    April 20th, 2010 at 7:59 pm edit

    So it wasnt Pat Dasso after all in the youtube video it was Kev McG******k, why wont you say his full second name???

    Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:
    April 21st, 2010 at 8:21 am edit

    @John

    Everyone has a right to privacy, dead or alive. If a name is already mentioned on a thread then fair enough. But you will never get more than a first name and the first letter of the second name from me.

  424. Martin C Says:

    Never mind Walter the Softy with his itsy-bitsy spider tats, chewing gum and practising his James Dean stares. John, you wanna track down the guy the boneheads were all scared of – hardest bastard ever – JOHNNY KYLE. He gives out his address and number twice, so it’ll be a cinch tracking him down:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQzYnbljZ9Y

    “Let proper fucken’ men fight! Proper men!”

  425. Chris Says:

    Strangely I have seen about three old(ish – ie guys in late 40s who look like they could well have been skin’eads in the early 80s) with facial tatts in the past week or two. One with a ‘Bonner’ stylee smorgasbord on his coupon in Archway, another in Camden and noticed that one of the fruit’n’veg guys on Berwick St market has ‘skins’ on his forehead (plus some snazzy BM inkies fading on his arms).

    But does anyone remember this muppet from a couple of years ago?

    http://searchingforstyle.com/archives/6949?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+searchingforstyle%2FJIfM+%28Searchingforstyle%29

    Jesus wept … :-(

  426. Andus Says:

    You lot still going on about face tattoos.

    People have face tattoos because they think its hard. simple as that.

    obviously this lady Kimberley Vlaminck did it for other reasons, she doesn’t look very happy about though, perhaps she’s just taken a bollocking off Chris low.
    That bloke who had racist tattooed on his forehead, my god what a twat, doesn’t he realize that he never be able to walk through Asian or African areas ever again, and if any person wants to accuse him of being racist and take him to court he’s gonna get convicted everytime. those type of people must have been brought up by some horrid parents.

    But skinheads nut-jobs put to one side, if face tattoos piss Chris low off so much. I reckon we should all have one.

  427. Chris Says:

    <>

    But I thought we did already? A barcode tattooed onto our foreheads; allowing our every move to be tracked by those sinister ‘eyes in the sky’ that the CIA controlled Secret State claim are CCTV cameras?

    Only joshing ;)

  428. jock Says:

    barcodes became outdated they inject a microchip under your skin now,you dont even know its there,i read it on a conspracey website.

  429. Andus Says:

    That’s outdated now as well, what they do is, they send a flying nano chip to your house powered by solar, it lays an egg under your skin while you’re asleep, it hatches and travels to your brain, where it monitors your thoughts and keeps the CIA aware of your whereabouts and thoughts.

  430. Chris Says:

    :)

    PS: just discovered this guy – fantastic stuff!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkbj_S3etY

  431. Andus Says:

    So Maradona and Thierry Henry have god on their side, they denounced the devil and used their hands. and won. bless em.

  432. Nic Says:

    Andus – you know what a piss-taker I am, but (dare I say it) Chris is even worse…

  433. jock Says:

    they also put a chip into those tamiflu tablets that loads of folk were given a while back,no need for injections,stays in you for life.
    ‘government flu’.

  434. alistairliv Says:

    Soccer starts with an S…..and so does Satan…and Socialism …and Sodomy!

    But first see Chris’ link

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBkbj_S3etY

    Archery and Angling and Athletics start with an A, just like Angel and Autonomy and Absolute Idealism. So a safe sport for Americans would involve running about with a bow and arrow shooting at fish.

  435. Andus Says:

    You don’t wanna stand for that Nic. but, I think Wazzy gets the award for King piss taker.

  436. Nic Says:

    Haha funnily enough, I saw The Gizzard of Wazz the other week. He’d been living round the corner from me, but said he’d moved because it was too quiet!

  437. James Says:

    On a facial tattoo note… anybody know this guy?

    http://www.derekridgers.com/index/module/media/pId/102/id/239/category/gallery|documentary|street7788/start/90/Kings-Road;-the-King%27s-Road;-C.html

    Who is that?

  438. Penguin Says:

    Alright there John (lol@msn.com), how’s the search for the late 1970′s and early 1980′s facially tatooed brethren? Did you make it down to the smoke to continue your search as mentioned in an earlier comment? If so, how was the trip? How comes you are commenting as James now and not John? Sorry for all the questions…”I’m just very curious”. The name is written below the picture by the way, just like the last one that you asked about from the Derek Ridges archive was.

  439. Siobhan Says:

    Yep, knew him by the name Spit….he’s dead now.

  440. James Says:

    Just thought of a random name I don’t want to disclose any personal information you see I have brain on me.

    I understand I can see ”Spit” but where was he from I wanted to know he looks rather evil looking lol.

    I’ve been near kings cross last month and seen a young guy with a mike tyson wannabe tattoo and an older guy with the forehead cross thats it.

    On the ‘Derek Rogers’ gallery are any of them knocking about still?

    Also – where is Bonner from exactly how old will he be now ?:)

  441. Penguin Says:

    “Just thought of a random name I don’t want to disclose any personal information you see I have brain on me”.
    Yeah, imagine. All the commentators trying to find out which John you are in the 10,000′s of John’s living and breathing in the UK. Best you do use that alias ‘James’ John just in case. ;-)
    Kerr gave you some history of Bonner way back, look for it again. Lewisham is mentioned. He would have been around 16 in 1980 so you can do the maths.

  442. Siobhan Says:

    James,maybe if you just gave your real reason why you are trying to find out or find these people,then maybe people would be more helpful.

    You where also on londonskinheads 1970′s – 1980′s, and people just got suspicious of you and why you couldn’t really explain why you need to know about the facial tattoo skins/punk.

    I knew a lot of that crowd back in the day, a lot are dead now and to be honest with you, they are the one’s I expected to be dead.

  443. Penguin Says:

    “James, maybe if you just gave your real reason why you are trying to find out or find these people,then maybe people would be more helpful.”

    I assume his reply would be “that I am just very curious” Siobhan.

    This reply has come up several times since late March 2010 when John (now James) first appeared on this post.

    I hope he finds what he is looking for on whatever forums are active on this subject. He seems a little obssessed on the subject though it must be said.

  444. James Says:

    My question is any still kicking about?

    Why are most of the facial tattooed crowd dead?

  445. James Says:

    http://www.derekridgers.com/index/module/media/pId/102/id/1094/category/gallery|documentary|street7788/start/63/subculture;-youth-sub-cults;-y.html

    I feel very sorry for him.

  446. Penguin Says:

    The same guy here :

    http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/killyourpetpuppy/Punk%20Lives%20stuff/?action=view&current=img669.jpg

    on a three page spread about the Kings Road from Punk Lives magazine 1983

  447. jock Says:

    i knew loads of young guys on the estate i grew up on up north with the cross and / or dot tattoed onto their faces, it was a borstal thing with them tho, none of em were punks or skins.
    skinheads, i’ve more bad memories of them than good ones, especially burnley fc ones.

  448. Chris Low Says:

    Funnily enough, two skinheads in the Elephant’s Head this evening with facial tatts. One who had a big Mike Tyson tribal type monstrosity down one cheek and along his chin. Looked newly done as well.

    Seen a few hipster types lately with stars tattood on their temples. Only makes them look even more foolish than their already sizeable arsenal of ‘signifiers’ did.

    Suppose with every kid these days wanting to look like the’ve been pushed into a tumble dryer full of marker pens it’s only natural that the more acceptable tats become the more folk will ‘up the ante’ by getting them on their faces etc.

    As my mate said to me when I passed comment on the fact that one night in our tube carriage three of the five young guys sitting opposite had full ‘sleeve’ tattoos: “When WE’RE seventy it’s US who folk will point at and call freaks for NOT being covered with ink!”

  449. Martin C Says:

    Can I just point out – the face tat queries resurface, Spurs lose to West Ham. THE JINX HAS BEEN REVERSED. DO NOT mention face tatted, dead 80s skins’n’punx this season, it won’t work!

  450. James Says:

    So lots of punks have face tattoos its not just a skin thing :-)

    What exactly is this love/hate tattoo all about on the knuckles? Is this another prison thing?

  451. Chris Low Says:

    nah, it’s just a ‘love/hate’ thing ;-)

  452. jock Says:

    dont forget ACAB,seen on a few of that lot.i did once see a guy with love spelt ‘luve’ on his knuckles,as they scraped along the ground.

  453. James Says:

    I see quite a few guys with ACAB but is it normally thugs who get love/hate on the knuckles or do sometimes ordinary guys get them?

    Is there any meaning to it specifically my uncle told me it was of a film but only hard nuts got it true or false?

  454. Penguin Says:

    The film your uncle was on about is a masterful piece of cinema by the name of ‘Night Of The Hunter’

    Details here is you are interested:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_of_the_Hunter_%28film%29

  455. luggy Says:

    One of my fave films too, def worth checking out if you haven’t seen it yet.

  456. James Says:

    I watched the trailer on youtube so basically hard nuts, convicts, thuggish type of people get love/hate i guess right?

  457. Chris L Says:

    Errr, No.

    “Love/hate” (always in that Ed Hardy ‘sailor tattoo’ style font) on the knuckles is prevalent amongst the burlesque type crowd and their Bettie Page-wannabe molls. Think Amy Winehouse / psychobilly types. Or ‘ironic’ retro 50s geeks.

    ‘James’, have you been locked away in a cellar for the past 20 years and just been let up for air? You do appear to be quite remarkably naive with regards to subculture. And how to use Google.

  458. jock Says:

    maybe ‘james’ is one of the offspring of Josef Fritzl in that case?

  459. James Says:

    When your day is long and the night, the night is yours alone,
    When you’re sure you’ve had enough of this life, well hang on
    Don’t let yourself go, ’cause everybody cries n everybody hurts sometimes

    Sometimes everything is wrong. Now it’s time to sing along
    When your day is night alone, (hold on, hold on)
    If you feel like letting go, (hold on)
    If you think you’ve had too much of this life, well hang on

    ‘Cause everybody hurts. Take comfort in your friends
    Everybody hurts. Don’t throw your hand. Oh, no. Don’t throw your hand
    If you feel like you’re alone, no, no, no, you are not alone

    If you’re on your own in this life, the days and nights are long,
    When you think you’ve had too much of this life to hang on

    Well, everybody hurts sometimes,
    Everybody cries. And everybody hurts sometimes
    And everybody hurts sometimes. So, hold on, hold on
    Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on
    Everybody hurts. You are not alone

  460. Bob Short Says:

    Has it really come to this. The facial tattoos were boring enough but now I’m having REM lyrics delivered to my email address. I really am going to be sick.

  461. James Says:

    Every time our eyes meet
    This feeling inside me
    Is almost more than I can take
    Baby when you touch me
    I can feel how much you love me
    And it just blows me away
    I’ve never been this close to anyone or anything
    I can hear your thoughts
    I can see your dreams

    I don’t know how you do what you do
    I’m so in love with you
    It just keeps getting better
    I want to spend the rest of my life
    With you by my side
    Forever and ever
    Every little thing that you do
    Baby, I’m amazed by you

    The smell of your skin
    The taste of your kiss
    The way you whisper in the dark
    Your hair all around me
    Baby you surround me
    You touch every place in my heart
    Oh, it feels like the first time, every time
    I want to spend the whole night in your eyes

    Chorus

    Solo

    Every little thing that you do
    I’m so in love with you
    It just keeps getting better
    I want to spend the rest of my life
    With you by my side
    Forever and ever
    Every little thing that you do
    Baby, I’m amazed by you

    Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
    SA marschiert mit ruhig, festem Schritt.
    Kam’raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
    Marschier’n im Geist in unser’n Reihen mit.

    Die Straße frei den braunen Batallionen.
    Die Straße frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann!
    Es schau’n aufs Hakenkreuz voll Hoffnung schon Millionen.
    Der Tag für Freiheit und für Brot bricht an!

    Zum letzten Mal wird schon Appell geblasen!
    Zum Kampfe steh’n wir alle schon bereit!
    Bald flattern Hitlerfahnen über alle Straßen.
    Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit!

    Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
    SA marschiert mit ruhig-festem Schritt.
    Kameraden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
    Marschieren im Geist in unseren Reihen mit.

    May God bless and keep you always
    May your wishes all come true
    May you always do for others
    And let others do for you
    May you build a ladder to the stars
    And climb on every rung
    May you stay forever young
    Forever young, forever young
    May you stay forever young.

    May you grow up to be righteous
    May you grow up to be true
    May you always know the truth
    And see the lights surrounding you
    May you always be courageous
    Stand upright and be strong
    May you stay forever young
    Forever young, forever young
    May you stay forever young.

    May your hands always be busy
    May your feet always be swift
    May you have a strong foundation
    When the winds of changes shift
    May your heart always be joyful
    And may your song always be sung
    May you stay forever young
    Forever young, forever young
    May you stay forever young.

    Die einzige macht und alleinige macht in Deutschland, es lebe Deutschland Fatherland! Sieg heil!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGhdX1SI3KY

  462. AL Puppy Says:

    I get it James, you are fan of Mel Brookes! “spring time for Hitler and Germany..’
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K08akOt2kuo

  463. Penguin Says:

    Strangely for you Al, you are a little off the mark!
    John ‘James’ is just an idiot…no more, no less.

  464. James Says:

    I’m a happy guy. I seen a man today with the cross had courage to ask him he told me he meant crucified out of society and judged he doesn’t regret it.

    Good ol’ wee pal.

  465. baronvonzubb Says:

    Pengween cant u just kind of do sum tech wizardry and ban him?
    Or like some other blog/forums make his post invisible?
    Or maybe get a virtual martin wright to infect his typing hand?
    Kind of a historical repetition that a campbell buildings thread should end up like this , non?
    :-)

  466. Penguin Says:

    Yeah I could spam his further comments, but as I have a libertarian bent, and have had for over three decades it would be unusual and hurtful to my psyche to start acting all Big brother-ish and ban certain browsers from the KYPP site. Free speech for the dumb and all that malarky. Hateful rants and death threats aside of course.
    I certainly don’t know where the lad’s heads at and would not like to second guess his motives for continuing to bombard the comments on this post with his chosen interest. The best way to break an annoying browser and an annoying topic is to enter more related and relevant topics to this CB thread that the browser may not know about or be able to comment on, thus saving the post and making it more interesting to folk that stop by.
    Perhaps you could start on stories of nicking food from corner shops, or setting fire to furniture to keep warm over that winter of 1980 or something else relatable to the squats…Hopefully the tattoo question will die down somewhat as this subject has been rinsed to the max I would have thought.
    Poor old Bob is tearing what’s left of his hair out I would think…and as for R.E.M, well yes quite!

  467. baronvonzubb Says:

    you are too good.
    once upon time there was this bloke called wankstain.
    a begger, thief and all round good chap he was. jack booted and spikey topped he would bring a smile to all as he nicked bacon from corner shops, and pilfer furniture from skips to keep us all warm in that cruel winter of 1980, oooh it was cold, but along with aussie bob, ruthless, and -not so- quick phil he would return from foraging trips abunded with chip board cast offs to a kindle on the hearths of campbell buildings.
    what ever did happen to him?
    well to find out you’ll have to abandon the evil aussie bob thread and go to where we all know is safe and warm.
    to that mother of all threads , yes to….the ‘big post’.

  468. Bob Short Says:

    Penguin, as hard as it is to believe, I still have hair. Lots of hair. A bountiful mane still needing no surgical enhancement, topical applications, pre fabricated coveralls or flagrant combovers. And who said bleach and crazy colour were bad? I put it down to an allergy to baldy boot boys, myself. And speaking of those allergic to our right wing fiends (sic), let us all say a grand Happy Birthday to Mr Livingstone.

  469. dave Says:

    nicking corona bottles from behind the blue sweet shop on bayliss rd, to exchange back to them for 5p was a great way of earning ciggie money or the parking meters outside the barge adventure playground was always fair game

  470. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    We used to crowbar the old BT phoneboxes on New Pk Rd, just a stone’s throw from Brixton prison. The sacks of old 2p pieces we carried off weighed a ton but it was worth it as we were always continually spunking all our wampum on blow from the coach & horses and other fine Jamaican hostelries of that era. For years I watched Buzzby ads and thought he was just an ATM for anarchists. A sort of sub-dole dole for urban desperadoes.

    I blame Thatcher.

    “maddest place i always thought in early days was that cinema round the corner that showed hammer films all night with complimentry cup of bovril included in entrance price.”

    I’ve been trying to think of the name of that dive all day. I remember there was another dodgy cinema up Euston Rd way (ABC??) that opened during the daytime, used to permanently smell of urine and was packed with hardcore smoke-blackened tramps and happy skin-popping smackheads. Think it closed after the indoor feral rat population evolved to such an alarming extent that they resembled small rottweilers.

  471. dave Says:

    ah and saturday pictures at the elephant followed by hot sarsprilla, who said parking fees dont go to good use!

  472. James Says:

    http://www.derekridgers.com/index/module/media/pId/102/id/349/category/gallery

    Anybody remember her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    She is gorgeoussssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

  473. baronvonzubb Says:

    well after lambeth, when we (mitch, sam,robbo, keith , wank and me) were in the grove (?) … one of the funniest nights i’ve ever had was gate-crashing some party in chelsea, (nicking all their records, fair game yes?)
    and then.. we ended up in some posh sq and spent hours in our drunken state bashing the shite out of a parking meter. Why we didnt give up i know not. and where were our boys in blue? we eventually raided skips found the correct tools, bashed it around some more and bunked the early tube home, with it bundled in a jacket. where a very wise tommy doyle advised us, after we spent yet more time trying to open it, that we had to melt it open on the cooker. he was right. parking meters, innocent fun.
    nice to know u still got hair Bob. i blame thatcher too Kerr…

  474. dave Says:

    never quite managed to chor anything from alaska studios but did tat a badge off billy idol outside (tight bastard)

  475. dave Says:

    ps james i remember her! shes in my derekridgers book that i cradle every night.

  476. Penguin Says:

    The comments above are more like it:

    Bob; I’m jealous, my hair still ok but reckon only another two or three years until the spam shows proper on top.

    Dave; a similar rip off I tried quite often to the one you mention above, this time soda sypthon bottles recycled out the back of an off licence, over the wall grab a load, go in through the front door sell them back to the shop, and start again every other day. Ripping off dairies was easy, done that a few times, getting eggs, bread and milk and so forth off the van supplies parked up for the night. Got nicked by the plod eventually for that when I was 12 going on 13.

    Kerr; welcome back always a pleasure, hope the few month hiatus was good.

    Baron; nice to read the parking meter head wrapped up lovingly in the warmth of someones jacket, should have permenant markered a smiley face on the glass bit, to make it look more like a cyborg infant, assumming the glass bit was not smashed already of course.

    Anyway, keep your memories coming, try to win your post back…

  477. dave Says:

    taking the lead off of brown and knights on westminster bridge rd was nice but hard work! shouldv’e just stayed with the copper out of campbell buildings (i shouldve been a totter).

  478. luggy Says:

    Pengy, didn’t your family feed you? Wasn’t there anything better to nick? ;-)

  479. Penguin Says:

    I used to get regurgitated herring a fair bit Luggy ;-) The dairy was just youthful larks more than necessity. Stealing clothes from BOY or FANS was more of a necessity due to the prices those shops charged!

  480. baronvonzubb Says:

    Oi P, is nyet a banned word or something?
    ….fair game. nyet…?
    Blimey kerr gets a welcome back but the baron gets his nyets removed :-)
    And as someone said to me when I was in Russia once
    ‘nyet nyet soviet, da da amerika’.
    I’m at the end of ‘atlas shrugged’ Ann Rand.
    Apparently a very influential thinker in the states
    Jesus …Does that explain how america got to be like that?
    Anyway more memories.
    How about being too embarrssed to ponce off people or nick outa the shops in the cut as they looked so skint.
    I remember wankstain & me when we hit Lambeth for the first time going out begging and wandering about the cut in a usually grimey october (’79) dusk looking at the cut folk and thinking fuck me we’ve gone back in time, or landed up north.
    Now I may have been the ‘rich kid’ or whatever my internet persona may be, but Stain was from Plaistow.
    And we’d both squatted in shite parts of town before.
    But neither of us felt good about poncing off local folk who obviosuly, his phrase ‘hadnt had enough to eat in childhood’.
    Proper inner city London poverty.
    That first eve we didn’t know Waterloos commuters were next door.
    And yeh, nicking outa ‘boy’, any of them on the Kings Rd or ‘stark naked’ was sooo damn good.
    Never managed to get anything outa Seditionaries. Bloody punk security was a bit too sharp.

  481. dave Says:

    ahh, the cut many a good drink in the windmill! dennis waterman used to warble in a wine bar opposite! and good poncing to be had outside the young vic where the trendy outsiders would spend hideous amounts of money to be entertained with crap (bless em).

  482. James Says:

    What’s her name

  483. baronvonzubb Says:

    dave sounds like you sussed it. i cant remember anything like wine bars or ….
    james i think you’ll find the cut wasnt a her,

  484. bob Says:

    In 79/80 there definitely was a wine bar on the cut just east of the old vic and opposite the eels and mash bar. Used to go in there with Ruthless. We met one of the Great Train Robbers there.

  485. dave Says:

    cant think of the name of the bar but the pie mash shop was e.cookes. ronnie edwards (buster) used most of the pubs etc in the area including the british rail club by his stall.

  486. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    I got a mate who lives on the peabody around the back of the Windmill and he just told me this mad story about being stopped by some transport coppers over at Elephant the other weekend. It’s a superb surreal Kafkaesque parable of modern Britain. I’ll share it a bit later.

    There are also rumours of an underground Terry Gilliamesque guerilla zoological movement who are planning to release Indian macaques onto the abandoned Heygate estate. Nothing would surprise me about that whole area. It’s a plague pit. Has anyone seen the anomalous shrine to the London Park Hotel in the Elephant shopping centre? Not sure if it is still there but I was gonna film it last year. Well strange. We bribed a Nigerian security guard to get into the London Park hotel just before it was demolished. It had a very fucked up atmos. Tacky nasty 80s social security prison camp meets transdimensional portal for qliphothic entities. Several weird murders and ‘happenings’ there plus asylum seeker mayhem that later made national press. The hotel from hell. Only the sign left now and that made the hairs on my neck stand up when I saw it.

  487. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    So…..

    My friend gets off at Elephant tube and is immediately accosted by two uniformed coppers, a detective and a dog. (Uncle Tom Cobleigh was unavailable it seems…) One of the uniform coppers then steps forward and says:

    “Good evening sir, I regret to inform you that you have been detected by the passive drugs dog.” (No trace of humour.) He gestures towards some excited wetnoseyhound on a leash which has been clawing at my friend’s clothing.

    My startled friend opines, with grin on face, thinking that it is just possible that this could be a Turner Prize contender or a total windup:

    “Passive drugs dog? Would that be a passive dog on drugs or a dog on passive drugs?”

    “Neither, sir, this is a passive drugs dog designed to detect cannabis and I am afraid that we are going to have to search your person.”

    Body search begins. My friend is still struggling with this newly encountered concept of a ‘passive drugs dog’.

    “So,” begins my friend, “do you mean to tell me that there are other types of drug dogs? For instance, is there an aggressive crack dog?”

    “Yes, sir, there are indeed other types of drug dogs but this is the passive drugs dog.” (Still no trace of humour.) The plain clothes detective behind the uniformed copper however begins to shift uncomfortably from one foot to the other, his eyes blinking. His body language clearly stating “thirty years on the force and I end up having to supervise this load of utter bollocks.”

    Search ends. Uniformed policeman declares:

    “Okay, sir, we didn’t find any concealed illicit substances on your person, so we have to ask is there any reason why you think that you might have been detected by the passive drugs dog?”

    “Yes, I work in a nightclub.”

    “Oh well then, sir, that explains it! You are free to go!”

    My friend then walked away shaking his head. Baffled. Disturbed. Amused.

    Now, after careful methodical cross-examination of the witness, I have managed to establish that the passive drugs dog was, alas, not a hallucionegenic bloodhound, melting like Daliesque stopwatch, with a fat spliff in its maw and communicating telepathically with all and sundry. (“I used to detect missing children, man, but now I just get monged all day and sniff tube passengers for contraband. But it keeps me in winalot even if I do have certain reservations about the civil liberties aspect of my job.”etc etc)

    This, at least, affords some relief.

    But what concerns me about this surreal parable is that someone, somewhere, in some management concultancy, has probably managed to extract millions of taxpayer’s hard earned wonga from some quasi-governmental body in order to come up with the concept of the Passive Drugs Dog.

    Abandon all fucking hope…..

  488. dave Says:

    nearly wet myself laughing, when i put my dictionary down! elephant underpass! fucking scary place at night, and they thought putting mirrors in would make it better???

  489. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Dave, do you ever go to that hole-in-the-wall chippy (masters super fish??) in waterloo road? Still does the best and cheapest nosh around.

    Elephant is a madhouse these days, especially as it can’t seem to make its mind up whether it is in downtown Medellin or a suburb of Lagos. And the town planners seem to want to just demolish it and transform it into a yuppy utopia. There are still a few old characters about but they seem strangely theatrical and ghost-like. There is (was about 3 years ago) a pub near the Heygate, run by an Irish woman with a dog, that actually seems to be stuck permanently in 1976. Buggered if I can remember the name of it.

  490. Shiv Says:

    Sorry to bring the face tat mob up again. Just a quick message for James if he’s still about.

    You wanted to know all about the skin/face tat crowd, then get yourself over to Sydenham station and high street…..cos that is where you’ll find Bonner……YES he is still alive, and i’m sure if you buy him a few special brews he’ll give you his tale.

  491. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Fuck me, Sydenham, I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. Talk about back of beyond. It makes Lewisham look modern and upwardly mobile.

    Oh and James, if you find him, tell Bonner he still owes Dave and me a tenner. (£100 adjusted for inflation.)

  492. James Says:

    Has he still only got half his face done?

    How old will he roughly be now?

  493. Chris L Says:

    a) “half” as opposed to “whole”?

    b) one hundred and seven.

  494. James Says:

    Is his whole face covered or still just half tribal thing?

    I mean seriously how old will he be now roughly

  495. Penguin Says:

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    (sound of head hitting the table) FUCKING OUCH MATE..!

  496. Chris L Says:

    James. to refer you back to the post above:

    >>Just a quick message for James if he’s still about.
    You wanted to know all about the skin/face tat crowd, then get yourself over to Sydenham station and high street…..cos that is where you’ll find Bonner……YES he is still alive, and i’m sure if you buy him a few special brews he’ll give you his tale.<<

    So there you go; "get yourself over to Sydenham station and high street" and stop acting like a horse's cock on here with your daft questions.

  497. James Says:

    I’m just asking how old Bonner will be, JESUS CHRIST

  498. AL Puppy Says:

    Jesus would be about 2000 and 10 years old by now if that is any help.

  499. i@n Says:

    He’ll be between 20 and 65, roughly speaking, if that’s any help. Thanks.

  500. James Says:

    Why the sarcastic comments? Stop being cunts and just tell me how old is Bonner… roughly speaking

  501. Penguin Says:

    Your original question which you asked on september 25 about Bonners age:

    “Also – where is Bonner from exactly how old will he be now”

    My original reply to the question posed by you, also dated september 25:

    “Kerr gave you some history of Bonner way back, look for it again. Lewisham is mentioned. He would have been around 16 in 1980 so you can do the maths.”.

    If you can not do the maths, then please ask a nearby adult.

  502. AL Puppy Says:

    2010 – 1980 = 30

    16 + 30 = 46

    So he will be about 46 years old. The way I worked it out was this. If the age of B = 16 in 1980, what will the age of B be in 2010? So I took 1980 from 2010 which gave me 30 which I added to 16 to give and age of 46.

    Or:

    1980 – 16 = 1964

    2010 – 1964 = 46.

    The fact that the same number, 46, appears each time suggests that this is more than just a co-incidence.

  503. i@n Says:

    …roughly speaking

  504. Martin C Says:

    http://sydenham.org.uk/forum hasn’t a clue what’s about to hit it…

  505. AL Puppy Says:

    Dinosaur tattoos?
    http://www.sydenham.org.uk/crystal_palace_park_09.html

  506. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Cut into the present and the future leaks out. Predictive linguistics programmes determine the following month’s local news headlines as follows……

    Lawful Killing Verdict Returned as Homeless Sydenham Man Kicks “Tattoo-obsessed Researcher” to Death.

    “A Succession of Wanton Provocations” says Judge. “Sane People Everywhere Offer Their Heartfelt Thanks.”

    In related news…..

    Anorak Weekly Mourns Death of a Man Known on Internet as the ‘Human Ansaphone’.

  507. James Says:

    So Bonner wasn’t even 18 when he got his face tattooed? :O

  508. Penguin Says:

    Who told you how old he was when he got his face tattooed?

  509. Penguin Says:

    P.S. Could you fuck off now please? Make a twat of yourself on the forum Martin C kindly supplied to you on a comment above. Thank you very much indeed in advance.

  510. James Says:

    Fuck off you cunt.

  511. Penguin Says:

    Strong words indeed.

    I vote for the policy that you yourself should, in your words, “fuck off you cunt”.

    Hopefully I will get more votes concerning my policy than you do with yours.

    In fact I will not bother to count the votes, I will assume you will not win, so contuary to my libertarian beliefs mentioned in a comment a little way up, I will just ban you from entering idiotic comments onto this site again.

    Hope you find what you are looking for tweedle dumber…

    Good day sir.

  512. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    I vote for sheep…….

    http://matacq.free.fr/Publis/sheep.pdf

  513. Penguin Says:

    Tactical voting again Kerr?

  514. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Indeed, Mr Whitehead,

    Why climb a fence when you can just sit on it?

    I think this thread definitely needed something though. Maybe sheep wasn’t the answer. Maybe there is no answer. Who knows?

  515. dave Says:

    james why dont you go and get your face tattooed, move onto the streets for a few years, make a diary and then you can answer all the questions you have.
    Kerr, the chippy under the bridge? opposite the tea bar, v.nice but always preferred the pie mash from the cut. the chippy down the lower marsh, was a good one because it was close to red star parcel tunnel, which was a short cut to the station when you was running from kenningtons un savioury uniformed!

  516. baronvonzubb Says:

    i love the smell of 46 shearing sheep in the morning/smells of victory.

  517. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    “Some day this war’s gonna end….”

    Yep, this is not a lame duck thread anymore. That’s for certain……

    http://www.nmr.nl/nmr/binary/retrieveFile?instanceid=16&itemid=2574

  518. dave Says:

    now im wondering whos worse, the gay necro duck or the person who watched, and then felt the need to dissect it after?? im confused

  519. Penguin Says:

    Can you remember if there were any dubious ducks getting up to no good down Waterloo back in 1980 Dave? Or were they just the scourge of Battersea park? Dirty rotters.

  520. baronvonzubb Says:

    pengween, you dirty ducking rotter. this is getting dangerously near the 700 posts mark. not a good sign.
    K, where do you find that stuff?

  521. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    “Gay Necro Duck”? Wasn’t that a 70s disco classic?

    Baron Von Z….I think most of them are Igs…..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ig_Nobel_Prize_winners

    Today’s talking point at the local pub was…

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2762080/pdf/pone.0007595.pdf

    Just remembered that they used to hold a most boring lecture contest at some UK university back in the 70s/80s. It was won every year by some guy in nhs specs and bright wooly jumper who would just return and deliver the same lecture over and over. Think it was entitled ‘A statistical analysis of the relationship between two co-efficient points’. Friend of mine met him once, said he was totally barking.

  522. dave Says:

    penguin.. the whole lot of that area was dubious in one way or another
    i knew a bloke who cleaned waterloo station toilets and spent most of his time polyfilling in glory holes and whacking people who tried climbing from cubicle to cubicle. most just spent their time night shopping and planning how to ambush footie supporters and outsiders. there was also a bloke who pulled out market barrows shouting fuck off to the sky (apparantly his family was bombed during the war)??? the only claim to fame for se1 residents is we have all been to the old bailey and long grove in epsom

  523. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    I had fish n chips at masters super fish yesterday lunchtime. There’s loads of new buildings going up around that area and tons of roadworks. It is definitely beginning to move with the times. Inevitable, I suppose.

    Dave, don’t start me on courthouses. Spent a lot of time hanging around Blackfriar’s, Inner London and Southwark. Defendant, witness, juror…done it all…

  524. baronvonzubb Says:

    i love the smell of court in the morning/smells of victory.

  525. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Agreed.

    Add black pudding to that list too.

    http://www.london-se1.co.uk/restaurants/images/091118_terryscafe.jpg

  526. thom3 Says:

    Hello, that photo at the top brings back memories. Just spent the evening reading through this thread a bit of social history that shouldn’t be lost or forgotten.

    Anyway, I lived in Campbell Buildings in ’79 in a squat opposite Bob and Ruth. I came there from a South London suburban council estate, escaping an oppressive (read traditional working class ex East End) family with my friend and one time lover Angie. We were only 17, totally naive; didn’t do drugs except for speed, hadn’t met a gay man (well I had but didn’t realise) etc etc.

    I was a punk (in fact I knew Ruth from our days hanging out in Bromley and it was a surprise to see her again as I had no idea she was living there).

    I had a picture of Adam Ant and James Dean painted on my wall in the squat at CB – AA pre poncey pirate of course – if anyone remembers.

    I was told about CB by some hippy I worked with (yes I had a job too). I remember sending off for my copy of the squatters handbook, nicking a hammer and screwdriver off my dad and moving in on one grey Saturday.

    For me squatting at CB was an introduction to something completely off my radar and the experiences I had at there really had an effect on the way I saw and still see the world. Funnily my time there taught me tolerance, which perhaps seems a bit weird, reading a lot of the comments proceeding this.

    I kind of went in there and just accepted everything I saw and experienced – the fear, death, drugs, sex, violence and madness along with the kindness and the sharing. The thing that really sticks with me was the ’79 christmas when everyone got together and cooked a dinner (did someone really shoot up the potato water? Sounds like a coffee myth but I’ve believed it until now). It was a real communal thing (or is that the rosy tinted backward gaze?). As far as I can remember we ended up in Bob and Ruth’s squat watching telly and drinking a bottle of whisky. I must admit I was always a little bit in awe of Bob – still am.

    As I said I didn’t know anyone except Ruth (where is she?) but ended up sharing a squat with Sue (whose brother lived in CB and was gay – Phil?) she was in her twenties then (or so she said). They came from Thornton Heath. My Angie’s dad died a few weeks before that xmas so she went back to the council estate (she’s still there), but I decided to stay on my own at CB – despite thinking I’d seen a ghost in our squat. Sue moved in as she was crashing on floors and I had a spare room.

    My memories are pretty vague (well its nearly 30 years) but I do remember going to see Dr Death to get Tuinol (he also diagnosed scabies bites on my cock – which I though was the pox); the old bill kicking my door down looking for an underage runaway; and helping people out of a burning squat on the end of the block on the ground floor. I also remember talking all night to someone about whether they should have a sex change (what did I know at 17? But I hope they did because they were really unhappy). I can’t remember any names except for Bob, Ruth and of course Cory.

    Two people whose names I can’t remember but I spent some time with was a skinhead who as far as I know later died in a fire after a glue session? He gave me the scabies after I lent him a pair of my trousers. He also saved me from a kicking in Camden Town. There was also a guy (also on the run from care – Mike? Mick?) who decided to pierce his nose and I remember it took hours to do it. Excruciating to watch. I think I got the Tuinol from Dr Death for him.

    Sue and me moved out in early 1980 to the estate by Lambeth Walk (along Black Prince Road, can’t remember its name). But it was a luxury compared to CB as we had a bathroom, hot water, proper cooker etc. We had loads of visitors (as we had baths, warmth and food) soon people began to squat the empty flats around us. The buildings were due to be refurbished and the council were slowly moving the tenants out, who were really nice to us and gave us all their old furniture.

    I do remember a Sid Vicious march in the Kings Road, although I didn’t go to it. I think I was going to see Joy Division that night (playing with Donna and the Kebabs?!!) and I didn’t have a ticket so wanted to get there early. Joy Division’s Unknown Pleasures was the album that I listened to over and over again at CB – there that existential alienation made perfect sense.

    I left in 1980 to go back to the dreary council estate. I’d had enough of being hassled by the old bill and skinheads, the neighbours had turned nasty as well. There was also a suicide off our balcony (an older guy as far as I remember) and I’d fallen in love with an Indian woman from Catford – not good with all those skinheads about.

    The old man let me go back to ‘his house’ with restrictions and it lasted until I jacked in my job and went to live with my then girlfriend’s family, who introduced me to Art and Poetry – Friedrich and Rimbaud.

    Campbell Buildings did change me and it was as much a positive experience as negative. I can understand for others that it was grim and now has the reputation of being a hell hole, but its that Xmas dinner that sticks in my memory as something special (and I know its really cheesy but it does).

    By the way there’s no religion lurking around here – I was taught by catholic priests and nuns so any of that stuff was beaten out of me long ago.

    Please correct me or fill in names, I do have a photograph of Sue somewhere and can post it if anyone wants to see it. I really would like to know what happened to her and Ruth.

  527. Penguin Says:

    Thanks for sharing these memories Thom; Phil is a regular commentator to this site and as far as I know his sister Sue is well. Cory is still around and sells the Big Issue in Muswell Hill and surrounding areas I have been informed. Bob is of course is still around and lives back in Sydney. Ruthless…Sam or Baron AKA Jake AKA Rich Kid would know more and hopefully all these folk will get onto the site in good time to respond to your memories.
    You should try to get hold of both of Bobs books both of which are a fascinating insight to the period.
    Check the bottom of this thread for details of obtaining both:
    http://killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=474
    Also the Baron has written some stuff on the subject in his book:
    http://killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=822
    Again look at the bottom of the post for details on how to get the book.

    BTW – The rough drafts in Barons book post which you can view on the post above are just rough drafts. The book itself is correctly typeset and the spelling mistakes are now at the very minimum after its second printing!
    The names of the folk in the book by Baron are all changed as well btw, just in case you do not recognise anyone in the paragraphs..!

  528. thom3 Says:

    Thanks Penguin. Book looks good. Just grabbed a copy of Trashcan.

    I just want to add that I used the word ‘tolerance’. Its wrong. Perhaps its empathy or acceptance or something, lets say something – I don’t want to sound like some ‘tolerant’ dad or liberal social worker.

    Anyway look forward to reading more on the subject.

    PS just in case you haven’t come across Mr Bey I’m sure some of what he writes will be of interest

    http://hermetic.com/bey/taz_cont.html

    Cheers

    Thom (Martin)

  529. Sam Says:

    Hi Thom,

    Thanks for your memories. The skinhead you mentioned was called Russ, who, the rumour went was set on fire by bikers in a squat. Good bloke. I wish Mitch would show up. Aside from the fact I’d love to speak to her, she took photos obsessively and had pictures of everyone.

  530. sue ritchie Says:

    hi from sue, yep somehow i was talked into nicking a massive turkey for that christmas dinner, cant remember who my partner in crime was, but i went into the supermarket grabbed the bird and threw it to who ever it was waiting outside on a push bike! think rus gave us all scabbies, but he was liked, so it got about. i gave up glue after someone telling me rus had died from it, however i hadnt realized in was in a fire until now, i came home from the hairdressers i was working in to find me flat had burnt down, it was ground foor flat all padded out as previous tennant was disabled, was that where rus died? cos if it was i didnt know till now!

  531. thom3 Says:

    Hi Sue and Sam good to hear from you

    Russ must have died after we’d moved to the Ethelred Estate behind Lambeth Walk. He was a really nice bloke.

    Who was it that took ages to pierce their nose? He was probably only 15 or 16 and was on the run from some institution. I can remember him being obsessed with Sid Vicious. I have a feeling he might have become a skin.

    On a separate note did we all go to the Crass/Poison Girls gig in Otford Village Hall (Kent) from Campbell Buildings? Or am I getting confused in my old age?

  532. Sam Says:

    Russ died in a squat somewhere else, though I think it was Waterloo. Maybe the squats Sue was talking about.
    The young guy you’re talking about was Mick I think, if we’re thinking of the same one. Yeah, he was a sensitive, eyelinered young man when he first came there. I left the squats, came back and he’d shaved his head and had adopted a kind of Tim Roth in Made in Britain attitude. Amazing how quickly people played with different elements of their personalites.

  533. Jah Pork Pie Says:

    I think it was at Kennington that Russ died – got targeted by bikers with petrol bombs in his squat while on Tuinol and he was too far out of it for his girlfriend to wake him up and drag him out so he ended up burning to death.

    He was wearing my two-tone suit and loafers at the time, apparently.

    Russ was a good fella. I liked him very much.

  534. Penguin Says:

    An update for the folk commenting on this KYPP post; one little tiny step nearer for Crap AKA Gary Critchley: http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2011/09/11/birmimgham-murder-appeal-man-gary-critchley-allowed-home-visit-66331-29398962/ as he is allowed the first in hopefully many home visits…

  535. fang Says:

    http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/steele_yourselves_it_s_end_of_an_era_at_top_pub_1_794777

    I always remember as a young teen seeing the skins in their docs, braces n MA1′s hanging about outside The Last Resort and thinking they looked the total dogs bollocks. Fuckin’ awesome, big respect.

    Part of me wishes I had been part of that whole time, and then reading some of the war stories here, makes me glad I missed it.

    Here’s to you who remain, the survivors who are left to tell the tales. *raises glass*
    - Fang

    PS: Good to see a few Killing Joke fans on here – Jaz and Youth are long-time close friends.

    As for John/James, or whatever fucking pseudonym he’s now going under – I thought you were interesting at first, turns out you’re just another sad cunt with nothing better to do than troll. Hopefully it’s the last you’ve heard of him anyway. If not, seriously – don’t even engage, just ignore.

  536. Sam Says:

    Nice find fang…fucking hell. Pat looks good.

  537. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    That thixofix did wonders for my complexion too!

    So he was Chelscum all the time. So who was the CR with the red devil on his cheek who used to hang out with him??? *Scratches balls then head*

    Killing Joke were the best band I ever saw in those dark days. Very cacophonously primal and menacing as fuck.

    Alright Sam! Hope things good with you….

  538. Penguin Says:

    I am worshiping again at the Kerr Ray Z alter, how you doing? Good to read you again.

  539. Kerr Ray Z. Fokker Says:

    Thanks, Mr Whitehead!

    Hope you and family members are well.

    Always a pleasure to read your illustrious site. I have been interweb free for a few months and have been enjoying some non-GUI interfacing. It very strange though as found cannot delete browser history for this thing termed ‘physical reality’. *horror*

    Now where is that reprobate Dave got to? Has he robbed that hospital pharmacy yet? And….if so, where my drugs!?!

  540. Sam Says:

    Hello Mr F. Life is different of late as I am single again and circumnavigating the shoals of singlehood. Confusing and itchy is all I’m prepared to say at this point.

    Good to see you again. Any chance of more 77 type stuff like the Adverts Penguin? Plus the reggae is always a treat. I’m such a conservative, me.

  541. Penguin Says:

    Oh sorry to read that Sam. Most of my records and tapes etc are in storage so been a little irregular the posts recently, I am moving to the new improved Penguin Towers at the end of October so all my stuff will come out of storage and back where it belongs. Will find some nice material to upload for you.

  542. Sam Says:

    Thanks Penguin. I look forward to it and good luck with the move.

  543. Sam Says:

    I feel like no one will read this but….I think this is ‘the lovely Liz’ from Campbell Buildings. Robbo hunted her up and she’s now a famous author. Elizabeth Fremantle.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m6Rv_KL2qI

  544. Tony Puppy Says:

    @Sam

    her website

    http://www.elizabethfremantle.com

    gives a brief autobiographical background:

    “with the onset of a turbulent adolescence I left school under a cloud aged fifteen with nothing more than a fistful of O Levels and a hapless sense that things would somehow work themselves out. Eventually, after working in various dodgy dives – I’ve served grey scrambled eggs to squaddies at 5.30am; I’ve served vintage champagne to raucous hoorays; I’ve pulled pints for all and sundry – I managed to find myself, much in the way Forrest Gump always landed on his feet, working as a dogsbody on a fashion magazine. From there I climbed the slippery pole that is fashion, working for titles such as Vogue, Elle and The Sunday Times and contributing to many others.”

    No mention of the old punk rock; though for a startled second I thought she said she worked for VAGUE. I’ve contacted her via her site and asked if she is the one and only. Watch this space…

  545. Sam Says:

    Robbo wrote too but no reply. I would imagine she’d want the past kept in the past but you never know. Funny how guys generally love looking back on this stuff and most of the women have washed their hands of it.

  546. Rob Says:

    Thanks for all the fascinating and sometimes startling recollections – an invaluable social history of the London punk squat scene warts and all. The death rate as described on this and other KYPP pages is sad and something I would otherwise have been unaware of. Thanks again for sharing these….

  547. Alan Says:

    I just came across this website by chance and by goodness does it not bring back some memories.

    I’m originally from Birmingham but later moved down to London in the early 80s for work and can remember quite a lot of the people that is mentioned further up. The skinheads with face tattoos definitely bring back some memories… I remember them all, most of them were not really nice people at all but rather drugged up criminals that had an awful past and where lost way before the ink hit their bodies.

    I went to a skinhead meeting a while ago and I could swear Bonner was there but I never spoke to the guy so will not know for sure but I doubt there is many people with them tattoos.

    I also remember spider Kev really well, we used to drink a lot and I have also seen his brother with his girlfriend and kids a few times, his brother was the more approachable as Kev was just always out of it and away with the fairies most of the time.

    John, I know that when you are young you want to be ‘cool’ and be ‘different’ but remember the idea of getting face tattoos is not something can be easily reversed and it might seem cool at the time but you are going to be stuck with that for the rest of your life, these people just did care as they were always on drugs or drunk (or a combination of the two) and did not give a monkeys what people thought of them or about getting a job – although many of the face tattooed crowd did work and the ones who survived it now and have the faded face tattoos probably still do labour work.

    Does anybody remember a guy called Wayne from Worchester? His full name is Wayne M****n he is a good friend of mine, he has a doc marten boot and a swallow on his cheek and the cross on his forehead… he also traveled to London for work and was among the skinhead lot with face tattoos, despite the face tattoos he is a nice guy… he has a family and actually works, despite all the drugs and drink he is still with us today which can not be said for many of them.

    I also remember a skinhead from up north like the Newcastle area who had the identical tattoos of spider Kev the spider and spider web and cross… he was a complete and utter nutter his face I can still picture but can’t for the life remember his name, he used to hang around the square in London and was a well known figure… any names???

    I myself was never brave enough to get the whole MADE IN ENGLAND and cross forehead tattoos and all the other crap on their faces like spider webs , swallows, love hearts and all that but I knew many that did… only tattoo I have is 4 dots across one of my hands which we did when young and daft… hey people learn from their mistakes but unfortunately some do not and that is why their are either dead or in a gutter somewhere.

  548. Stephen Says:

    Does anybody not remember Simon Biggs aka ‘Biggsy’ who had the Nazi band name SKREWDRIVER along with Oi! and the little cross tattooed on his forehead, he used to and still is as far as I know a skin, he was from London but moved up north to Newcastle and later I heard became the leader of the NF north east branch. He got his face/forehead and hands tattooed removed whilst he was in prison, he joined C18 as well, I’ve seen pics of him online at C18 rallies and he’s also mentioned on the BNP wiki page as having served time for a racist attack back in the day. Surprised this bonehead hasn’t been mentioned before as far as I know he is still alive and a well known figure up in the north.

    Another skinhead whom I used to be very close with from going to gigs and meetings was a guy named “Pete” that’s all I ever knew him as, he’s an alcoholic and originally from London but like Biggsy he moved up north to Newcastle and as far as I still know he still has face tattoos, they are like maori style and some pattern on the other day, we kind of lost contact when he moved away. He was a nice bloke in small doses but he used to always rant on about Hitler, the Jews being greedy people and the blacks being savages and how he spoke against race mixing, he went downhill the last time I seen him which was the early 90′s. I wonder if he’s still alive.

    The photographer who someone mentioned earlier as ‘Derek’ is a man named ‘Derek Ridgers’ and did a book named ‘Skinhead’ and it showed all the skins from back in the 80′s many had the face tattoos, I remember reading this article and it pretty much sums it up:

    http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/pictures-v9n7

    Have a little read yourself, it definitely speaks the truth how not all of the face tattooed guys (and the girls but there really wasn’t many but I have seen the odd few online and remember ‘Lisa’ who sported a face tattoo) were bad people but just got lost with the drink and drugs…

    Bonner is also doing very fine despite his hard struggle through life.

    Many of the face tattooed crowd still walk around proud as punch with their tattoos now faded all over their face.

    It makes you think how it was back then and how it is now with tattoos and sociably acceptable because back then sleeves and that was not really common but now a lot have it done but the stigma and taboo on hands, neck and face tattoos still has remained the same, I seen a young skinhead sporting the face tattoo idea and he had the cross and spider web etc etc and I thought to myself what a tit you will find it so difficult to get a job as its difficult enough as it is now so why make it so much harder for yourself, but his choice at the end of the day…

  549. Sam Says:

    Kerr Ray Z. Fokker

    @ it seems you have it wrong, pat dasso wasn’t one of the cobweb skins as seen in the article just above he doesn’t even have any tattoos on his face so someone is confusing him with someone else when their say he used to terrorise the kids and he had spider webs tattooed on his face its bollocks. although i guess you are right he does look anglo-indian like cliff richard haha.

    ironically, in the last week or so i’ve seen about 3-4 different 40+ year old guys with faded face tattoos clearly done by marc shane / marc saint or someone like him as it was spider webs, made in england, cross and all that shit.

    there is one guy i remember on a site i can’t remember where who had the full face tattoos lot, swallows, cut here ——– dot dot around his neck, swastika and iron cross, cross on forehead and so on… must have been a late skin he looked no older than 30 and this was only 4-5 years ago.

    i wonder why pat dasso was nicknamed or aka ‘pat the tat’ too.

  550. Sam Says:

    Just so you know the ‘Sam’ above is not me…ie Mr Heretics Sam. I claim copyright and fine you 25,000 pounds.

  551. lEE hILL Says:

    Came across this site by accident and read about Campbell Buildings and it bought so many memories back………. Bonna and Beano attended a Carnaby Street Meet that is held now and then. Started by a old skinhead called Scar. Wanted to get some of the old skinheads back for a reunion……….. Try getting onto the LondonSkinheads 1970+80′s loads of old faces on there

  552. Lee Hill Says:

    forgot to say have photos of bonna and beano at the meet but do not know how to post them on here

  553. Lee Hill Says:

    Londonskinheads1970/80′s are now on facebook

  554. Lee Hill Says:

    Spoke to the “Beano” that I knew says it is not him………… Sorry guys if any one still reads the thread……………

  555. Davey Says:

    It appears that Bonner is still going strong as one of the old time skins Bob organised a meeting of all the skins and he turned up with his old and now faded face tattoos, I had a little chat with him and he seems to be keeping okay.

    @Alan – I knew Wayne Munden very well, he is still living in Worcester and has a family and works. I’ve not spoken to him in a couple of years but I seen him in one of the pubs and we had a drink together and spoke of the old times, he sometimes does tattoos from his home.

    @Stephen – I knew of Biggsy but was never really close to him, he more on the extreme right all his life and not so much a traditional skin he was political and always fighting he went to jail and after he served his time he moved up north and from what I know he runs the Newcastle NF.

    If it’s the Pete I am thinking of then he served in the army and then became a skin but moved away from London, do not know if he has face tattoos as I’ve not seen him for over 20 years…

    Does anybody not remember Chris? He had a flower tattooed on his cheek the last I heard he was dead, can anyone confirm this?

    He is on http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/pictures-v9n7 bit down with the tattoos on his face.

    Ironically, I thought since the skinhead phase had died down since the 80s I am surprised at how many young skins I am seeing with crosses and other stuff tattooed across their faces…

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